Thread: Defender Purchase Advice (300tdi vs td5)

Originally Posted by ThoBar

Hen's teeth?

Can't say I've seen one for sale yet. Are these a much more powerful engine?

The 4BD1 was fitted to land rovers sold in Au between 1982 and 1991. And also military 4x4s and 6x6s manufactured between the mid 80s and mid 90s.

The bodies and drivetrains of some vehicles are getting long in the tooth, but the engines do a million k's between rebuilds, and can be easily turbocharged. There are a few out there that have been well looked after or rebuilt.

Economy is about the same as a Tdi or Td5, but they produce much more torque, and last a lot longer.

Originally Posted by Psimpson7

I disagree.

Stock for stock, a Td5 has ~45 kW more than a 4BD1T, but the 4BD1T has ~50 Nm more torque...

However I would place money that a tweaked TD5 producing the same peak power and peak torque as a tweaked 4BD1T wouldn't last as long (plus the 4BD1T would have more torque down low - nomatter what you do to the TD5).

Buy the 300 Tdi.

[1] Parts are cheaper (usually ex-UK).
[2] Less hoses, easier to access & replace
[3] Less complex parts (ie separate alternator / vacuum pump; no ECU, no EGR; no CAT; no in-tank fuel pump; no Fuel cooler...
[4] Easier to diagnose or bypass faults.

[5] Price - I've noticed 300 Tdi's are up on price from a year ago and TD5s are down, so not much difference in that.

I've got a 300Tdi Defender and a TD5 D2a. The TD5 hasn't been as scary to work on as I feared, and I'll concede the ECU in a 110 has less to deal with than the ECU in a D2. But the Tdi is easier and faster and cheaper to work on.

In a remote area, I'd be a lot more comfortable in the Tdi, there'd be less 'critical spares' to carry and they'd all be a simple fix.

The Td5s benefits over the TDi would be traction control.

Until the PUMA came out TDi were still made new for NATO, not sure since.

if you do the timing chain or have receipts for it being recently done, a 300TDI is going to give you 50-70,000 km before you have to worry about it again. That is a lot of KM's. And no worry about the ECU, etc., of the TD5. I know what I would do,

But must add, I have never owned a TD5, but we have TDI's..

I have had nearly 300,000 km out of my 300 TDi Defender, and it has had a water pump and an injector pump. The latter was leaking, so was a roadworthy fail and needed to be replaced for rego, it could have driven for longer if needed. Everything else has been reliable, my TD5 Disco on the other hand cost me a fortune as it spat a big end. The big difference was the D2 was second hand and I didn't know it's full history where I owned the Defender from new.

I would look for the best example for the money, with the best service history whichever engine.

Jeff

Originally Posted by ThoBar

Why the 2002 onward? What changed?

The early Td5 issues (plastic head dowels, oil pump bolt etc) seem to have been sorted by about then. After 2002 however you don't get a Salisbury rear.

Thanks for the discussion far.

There's a lot of good food for thought, and it's really helping flesh out what I want - but don't let that stop the discussion.

Cheers.
T

'03 to '05 have the weaker fuel galleries so you want an early to mid '02 or a post '05. Just avoid the last 6 month of manufacture as they are ones with all the body rot issues, shared by early TDC's

TD5 weak major spots: Loom,ECU,Injectors,EGR valve,Vacuum pump,Oil pump,Bottom end,Turbo,Exhaust manifold,Poor quality diesel (low calorific especially),Poor fuel economy. All issue experienced around the globe. However it's nice to drive, easy to drive, easy to tune. A great engine all in all if you look after it and know how to sort it out

300Tdi problems: Smaller water jacket than the 200Tdi, Head is not forgiving, errr...?
All the old probs on the 300Tdi have been fixed/found, the cam belt is a two hour job in the shade without even losing the coolant! If you want to travel the world then the 300 is your starting point, it will run on any form of derv all day long - just watch the EGT. A re-build is simple. CHeck the head if you buy an unknown and budget for a new one. Service the injectors very regularly as dribbling melts piston crowns

Obviously the 200Tdi is better still...

The Big Isuzu lump is a stonker but rarer than an honest politician anywhere out of the Southern Hemisphere and parts are very hard to come by. The 2.8 and 3.1 are much eeasier to find bits for North of the Equator.

The best non LR lump for a world traveller would most likely be the Mazda 3.5TD or an Iveco 2.8TD. They don't eat boxes either

What else? Oh yes! Yer man who stated that only TD5's have R380's is wrong - all 300Tdi's have them. Nice box. Cultured. But when it dies it fails outright. Not so the LT77. When it dies it pretty much always leaves 4th working - means you keep going.

Originally Posted by nonimouse

'03 to '05 have the weaker fuel galleries so you want an early to mid '02 or a post '05. Just avoid the last 6 month of manufacture as they are ones with all the body rot issues, shared by early TDC's

TD5 weak major spots: Loom,ECU,Injectors,EGR valve,Vacuum pump,Oil pump,Bottom end,Turbo,Exhaust manifold,Poor quality diesel (low calorific especially),Poor fuel economy. All issue experienced around the globe. However it's nice to drive, easy to drive, easy to tune. A great engine all in all if you look after it and know how to sort it out

300Tdi problems: Smaller water jacket than the 200Tdi, Head is not forgiving, errr...?
All the old probs on the 300Tdi have been fixed/found, the cam belt is a two hour job in the shade without even losing the coolant! If you want to travel the world then the 300 is your starting point, it will run on any form of derv all day long - just watch the EGT. A re-build is simple. CHeck the head if you buy an unknown and budget for a new one. Service the injectors very regularly as dribbling melts piston crowns

Obviously the 200Tdi is better still...

The Big Isuzu lump is a stonker but rarer than an honest politician anywhere out of the Southern Hemisphere and parts are very hard to come by. The 2.8 and 3.1 are much eeasier to find bits for North of the Equator.

The best non LR lump for a world traveller would most likely be the Mazda 3.5TD or an Iveco 2.8TD. They don't eat boxes either

What else? Oh yes! Yer man who stated that only TD5's have R380's is wrong - all 300Tdi's have them. Nice box. Cultured. But when it dies it fails outright. Not so the LT77. When it dies it pretty much always leaves 4th working - means you keep going.

nope it said td5's have a latter modle r380 witch is stronger.

suffix K i think but not 100% sure.