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Thread: Problem with front radius arm to axle Superpro bushes

  1. #1
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    Problem with front radius arm to axle Superpro bushes

    Hello,

    About 8 months ago I purchased and installed a complete kit of Superpro bushes for my D110 (1999, early TD5).

    Everything has been fine except for the front radius arm to axle bushes.
    I noticed strange nosies (clunks) on the front axle after taking the Defender for the first time to do some of road after installing my new bushes.

    First thing I noticed was that the bolts which tighten the front radius arm to axle bushes were not tight as they should be. I tightened them and the clunk-during-articulation improved a bit, but it was still there.

    Next thing I noticed is that there was some free space between the sides of the bush and the bracket which is welded to the axle on the two bushes on the front side of the axle (both on the passenger side and on the driver side). This seemed strange and I tried to fix it by inserting a couple of large flat washers to act as a supplement. The noise improved significantly but there is still a loud clunk/bang commming form the front bushes when doing some good articulation. The clunk has dissapeared under normal road and dirt road driving but it appears with articulation over uneven ground, otherwise it is fine. The ride on the road is excellent, very stable, no vibrations at all.

    The bushes I bought were part of the SPKIT0043AK KIT and included the following SPF0195K front radius arm to axle bushes instead of the SPF0195SK bushes which apparently have an outer shell.

    My Defender (early Td5, made in 1999) apparently has the wide radious arms.

    Following the introduction my specific questions are:

    a) what is the real difference between the SPF0195SK and the SPF0195K bushes? They are both supposed to fit into the same place and are made for the same models of Defenders so why does Superpro make two versions? This is, to my knowledge, not very clear in the Superpro web page. Anybody knows what the outer shell really is? There are no pics in the web page to tell the difference. May I have bought the worng bushes? Perhaps the SPF0195SK bushes are wider and would close the gap between the bracket and the radoius arm?

    b) If what I suspect in "a" is not the case, any ideas as to what may be wrong? I cannot believe my bushes are destroyed after a few months of use with virtually very little to no off road use.

    c) May the bushes have been improperly installed ? I cannot see how this could have been done (they were installed in a shop).

    d) last guess: could there be some free play between the bolt and the inner tube of the bush causing this loud clunk when I articulate? I have read something in this forum about dirt getting betweeen the inner tube and the bolt and "eating" the bolt, creating some free play.

    I will appreciate any help/ advice on how to go about solving this? By the way the Defender works just fine off road, it articulates very well but the loud bang/clunk comming from the front bushes is just annoying and I am afraid I may destroy something along the way....
    I will try to post a pic of the washer between the bush and the bracket to illustrate.
    Cheers,
    Santiago

  2. #2
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    Have you measured the width of the radius arms to check that it has the correct ones fitted ?

    This explains why they have the one with the outer shell, but should be the same width I would assume.
    http://www.tomcatwebshop.co.uk/front...95sk-218-p.asp
    John

    Series 2 LWB - Gone
    Series 3 LWB - Gone
    Series 1 LWB - Gone
    81 RR 2 door - Gone
    95 Disco v8 - The Next Victim

  3. #3
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    Have you measured the width of the radius arms to check that it has the correct ones fitted ?

    This explains why they have the one with the outer shell, but should be the same width I would assume.
    Front Radius Arm to Axle Bush Kit Speed Events Heavier Duty SPF0195SK[/quote]


    Thanks John. That link explains clearly what the outersleeve is about. That is evidently not my problem. I have measured the width of my bushes (in-situ) and they are about 50mm, about the same width of some old rubber bushes I used to use before (the ones which I replaced for the Supepro bushes). So I cannot understand why they seem not to fill the gap between bracket and radius arm.......lets post some pics to illustrate.



    You can see the flat washer on the right hand side, between the bracket and the radius arm. it does not fil the gap however. Actually I think the washer is being trapped between the bracket and the inner tube. Anybody knows how this should work?

  4. #4
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    I've had a horrible experience with super pro bushes...

    fitted my 130 defender up with them before I set off around Australia and now 12 months and 32,000ks later I've had to have them replaced at great expense.
    I thought they would have been a good thing, after all people seem to rave about them on here.

    I have traveled down some pretty bad roads but what I didn't expect was the brackets for the radius arms on the rear diff to wear... they kept coming loose and refused to stay tight no matter how tight or how often I did them up. Every time I checked the rear radius arms they were loose on the diff end. eventually they wore the mounting bolt holes and they would move around clunking as they went...

    I'm back on rubber bushes now and have had the damage fixed up.

    My case could be a unique one, or other factors could of caused my problems, but as far as I can see my defender had no issues for the first 165,000ks of it's life running rubber bushes. but 32,000 ks on polly saw me with all sorts of issues from clunks to steering wobbles.

    maybe they just aren't cut out for endless corrugations or too hard perhaps?
    I'm glad to see the horrible blue things gone!

    once again I love driving me lovely 130 it's like a new car!

  5. #5
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    Santiago
    One other thing to check, as Benz has indicated is the actual hole diameter at the axle housing bracket compared to the through bolt.

    With time, these holes will wear and oval.

    The symptom will be clunking on articulation.
    You can over drill, turn up a flanged sleeve and weld it to the bracket as a fix. The benefit is that it essentially thickens the axle bracket plate resulting in less on going wear.

    Sometimes just replacing the bolts is all that is needed if they have worn a small collar at the axle bracket location that movement will create your clunks.

    S

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benz View Post
    I've had a horrible experience with super pro bushes...

    fitted my 130 defender up with them before I set off around Australia and now 12 months and 32,000ks later I've had to have them replaced at great expense.
    I thought they would have been a good thing, after all people seem to rave about them on here.

    I have traveled down some pretty bad roads but what I didn't expect was the brackets for the radius arms on the rear diff to wear... they kept coming loose and refused to stay tight no matter how tight or how often I did them up. Every time I checked the rear radius arms they were loose on the diff end. eventually they wore the mounting bolt holes and they would move around clunking as they went...

    I'm back on rubber bushes now and have had the damage fixed up.

    My case could be a unique one, or other factors could of caused my problems, but as far as I can see my defender had no issues for the first 165,000ks of it's life running rubber bushes. but 32,000 ks on polly saw me with all sorts of issues from clunks to steering wobbles.

    maybe they just aren't cut out for endless corrugations or too hard perhaps?
    I'm glad to see the horrible blue things gone!

    once again I love driving me lovely 130 it's like a new car!
    Strange, I have Super Pro everywhere except the rear trailing arm to diff bushes, they are still OE !
    I use my 130 on some ordinary roads and it gets a caning and the SP bushes have held up far better than the OE rubber ever did, the rear trailing arm to chassis bushes are over 220,000km old now and fine.

    I'm not sure what's happened with Santiago's bushes either, in use they generally seem superior to OE but it looks like his have taken a 'set' and compressed ?

  7. #7
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    SG1, you didnt forget to install the crush tube in the bush did you?

    Even if the crush tube was a 1-2mm shorter than the width of the OEM bush, there is enough give in the axle bracketry to get it tight.

    Definitely check your holes for size.

    Also I found bad clunking in my front end and the only bolts I could find remotely lose were on the panhard mounting bracket and they were not even that lose. Doing them up made the difference though.

    Benz, what year model is your 130? There was a short period of time when defenders where coming out with out the weld on washers on the rear axle trailing arm mounts. This would and did lead to wollowing out of the bolt hole and problems from there.

    I would say there is something going on other than the superpro bushes not working. Either something on your truck or you got a one off bad set of rear bushes. To many people run them with no problems.

    Another thing I found when I replaced all my bushes was how tight the car felt, but showed up other little problems that were masked by the old bushes having slop in them...

  8. #8
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    The bolt in your photo looks to be too small. It should be an imperial but an M16 is close enough.
    Maybe it's the angle of the photo but your looks more like an M12.

    It also looks too short as there doesn't appear to be any threads protruding from the Nyloc but.
    Regards,
    Jon

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by roverrescue View Post
    Santiago
    One other thing to check, as Benz has indicated is the actual hole diameter at the axle housing bracket compared to the through bolt.

    With time, these holes will wear and oval.

    The symptom will be clunking on articulation.
    You can over drill, turn up a flanged sleeve and weld it to the bracket as a fix. The benefit is that it essentially thickens the axle bracket plate resulting in less on going wear.

    Sometimes just replacing the bolts is all that is needed if they have worn a small collar at the axle bracket location that movement will create your clunks.

    S
    Good point Steve.

    I also had to replace the chassis to A frame bolts as they'd worn appreciably, and I wrapped the new bolts with shim stock on one side and one of the front radius arm to diff bolts as the bore size was a little oversize on a couple of the crush tubes.

  10. #10
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    The inside of the brackets are probably worn a fair bit and as was mentioned renew the bolts also. When I did mine I had to retighten (very tight) a few times but it finally took up.
    Unless original is not available or stupidly priced ( not the case here )
    I cant see the attraction to eurothane "bushes" . first up they are not bushes like original black rubber where the inner and outer sleeves are bonded (vulcanised) together and the rubber itself twists. They are more like a bearing and the inner sleeve grinds away at the eurothane, so they will not last as long as the original (noticeably true on shackles , especially where dirt is involved). Also being stiffer , (advertised as being some sort of advantage ) in the the front axle radius arms this inhibits full compression and drop out on opposite sides of the axle as the arms need to be able to roll in the mounting locations for this to happen and on the rear bush at the chassis it also wants to be supple enough to let the arms drop down (eurothane will hold them up to some degree).
    They also give a harsher ride. They do look good on hot-rods as you can colour match with your paint scheme.
    The only plus side is they are often easier to fit as some part numbers do away with the outer sleeve so no need to press in, and once fitted the suspension doesn't need to be set to ride height before tightening because the bush is free to rotate ( a big plus for people who don't now what they are doing ).This procedure is not relevant to the front axle in question.

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