hang on....

we don't want glycerine in the mix.. glycerine is bad.

go here --> Welcome - Collaborative Biodiesel Tutorial Website

the aim of making biodiesel is to thin the WVO (Waste Veggie Oil) by getting rid of the glycerine.. through separation. suspension, means its still there.. this is bad.

a definition of bad = ruins engines.

if you want to use SVO (straight veggie oil) - which has glycerine in it) then this is a different set-up.. heaters, etc..

cheers,

Paul.

Hi Paul,

I know the site you are referring to me but it doesn't discuss making bd with ethanol only methanol. I know that with methanol you need to get rid of the glycerine, that's not the case with ethanol and quite a few people are making it this way.

Try Ethanol resources on the Web: Journey to Forever
or
Making Biodiesel with Ethanol - Forum Powered by eve community
or
Australian Ethanol Discussion - Bio Fuels Forums

I understand that for many, the idea of not taking out the glycerine is a BAD idea and it reminds me a bit of those that are for washing and those that say it's not needed.

I'll see if I can dig up the chemical explaination <got it here somewhere>, for why the glycerine is not required to come out when using ethanol and post it up.

The origins of this method by the way are from OCH's Master Formula.

Cheers, Pete'

Oh just as a postscript, even though I have both spoken and written to a few people who are doing it this way, we still intend to trial it on some farm equipment and generators first.

Pete'

thanks for th additional links.. interesting reading.

I found step 8 on the following link interesting ("they" do say a separation occurs)

Ethanol resources on the Web: Journey to Forever

sound like Ethanol based separation is tough.. I won't be doing it.. I've got my process is pretty well sorted, now.. btw - I can stuff up my biodiesel batch (by my own laziness, mis-reading, etc) using Methanol.. so I don't need to complicate it with using Ethanol..

by my reading, you don't want glycerine in the final product... but as I Sadi earlier, that's how I'm reading the material...

good luck!!

regards,
Paul.

Well, I just did the first test batches of Ethanol BD and it has come out a treat, NO separation needed, NO glycerine removal, NO washing, NO waste to discard and the genny runs BEAUTIFULLY on it.

Will keep testing using this formula in the genny for a while, probably about two weeks to see what happens. It goes into the truck next, probably at 20% for a few tanks, then 50%, then 80%, then 100%. New filters installed before we start then inspection after every tank.

All good so far, we'll see how things progress but I'm very happy at the moment.

Pete'

Well done Pete... watching with interest

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Hi All,

I have thought about putting in a single or twin filter between the EBD (Ethanol-Bio-Diesel), storage tank and the hand pump before it gets to the car/farm-vehicle/genny, etc.

My thinking is whether you are a WVO, MBD or EBD user, it's still all about filtering before it gets to the ignition chamber right? The more clumps, lumps and bumps you filter out, the better (hassle free), your burn will be.

So, I am thinking of putting a CAV dual fuel filter assembly using 2 Baldwin BF825 filters with adaptor barb fittings 1/2in port thread to 3/8 fuel hose from the initial storage tank (approx 1000 ltrs), into a smaller tank (say 250ltr). This is before it gets to the pump that I use to fill the fuel tank of whatever engine.

My question is, I want at least a 20 - 10 - 5 micron filter to push the fuel through before I actually use it. I notice most of the diesel filters do not specify micron sizing. ( I notice petrol/oil filters don't do that either!).

Can anyone point me in the right direction of micron sizing of various diesel ( or other), filters?

Cheers,

Pete'

Oh, ps. Genny still going strong after 74 hours

Hi Folks,

Good to see some alternative experimentation happening, but in the whole scheme of things... I'm just not sure that it's worth the effort.

I have been making bio for 5 years now using Methanol and potasium hydroxide.

In all of that time, I have only had 1 bad batch and that was because I did'nt dewater it properly (got lazy!!)

I properly titrate the oil (every single batch) use around 15% Methanol, heat the mix to around 50C and agitate for around 20 minutes. I also only use liquid oils like cotton seed, canola etc and avoid using the solids that accumulate in the bottom of the drums.

I let it settle out for at least 10 days and then pass it through a 5 micron sock filter before it goes into storage.

Now... here's a few facts!

I run B100 in three different vehicles including my 1997 D1 300Tdi. I have another vehicle that has done 70K on bio without any problems. I rebuilt an engine in another of my vehicles and this has done over 40K without ever seeing any Dino diesel. Again, without any pump or engine problems.

The person who taught me how to make bio all those years ago has an MQ Patrol which has done around 230K on Bio without any problems. They recently took the head of it and found that the bores have vitually no ridging and the hone marks in the cylinders are still clearly evident. There was no carbon build up anywhere with just a very fine layer of powder gray/black as you would find in any diesel engine.

The Bio I make is good down to 2C before it just starts to wax and I can take it down as far as my freezer goes (-22). When it thaws above 2C, it clears back to it's normal crystal clear self. If I mix it with Dino, the wax point drops to around 0.5C.

The glycerine is always liquid and easy to seperate and handle. For many years it simply bio degraded in the back yard and compost heaps. I now keep it because I am thinking about building a vacuum still to refine it.

Other than collecting the oil from my suppliers, it takes less than 1 hour to make 180L and costs me around 18 cents/L. There is simply no noticable difference in engine performance, the engines run noticeably quieter but economy is down by about 4% on average.

BTW, I never strain any of my oil as the solids simply fall out into the glycerine over the ten day settling period.

I know a thing or 2 about engines and pumps and I'm still not convinced that the suspended ethanol mix is going to be good for it, particularly if there is going to be glycerine present.

I think you will find that most off the shelf filters will vary anywhere between 5-30 micron.

Still will be watching proceedings with a great deal of interest....

Keep the information coming.

Regards
M.

Hi pete not sure if this helps but i work at a plumbing supply place and i've noticed that most if not all water filters "not a plug" like aquapure, have a micron size on them from 25 to 5 maybe even lower (don't quote me havn't looked into it) and although there not cheap its food for thought.

David

Hi David,

Have only just checked back on the site, have been away for a while but I can let everyone know that the genny is still fine and next week we move over to a forklift and then one of the trucks. Thanks for the tip on water filters, I might get one anyway and see how long it takes to let 100 liters through, worth a shot I reckon!

The genny and it's filter is looking good but I would still like to get a "sock" filter as Plugma referred to, but everytime I walk into a auto shop and ask for one, the bloke behind the counter takes his shoe off and says that his has a hole in it so it's no good.

Someone want to tell me where I can get a “5 micron sock filter” without the wise cracks and maybe tell me what they are actually called not the “common” term.

I also thought that Plugma's post underlined what I had thought anyway and that is that diesel vehicles will run on almost anything. Having said that, the reason why I am running my blend (ethanol with no dewatering apart from at the start when heating to 60) through a range of motors is so that I can see if anything happens to either filters/injectors/motors in different things over a period of time.

I'm sorry I have been away from this part of the forum for some time but rest assured I have not forgotten about this, especially since the idea of an ethanol mix without either "washing" or taking/settling the glycerine out is held in a positive view by the minority if at all.

Also want to thank Dave for suggesting to me a way of running a "testbench injector" in order to see the results of petro-diesel against EBD ( Ethanol-Bio-Diesel). I agree with his thoughts too that an injector will run even if not "on spec".

The question is, does it matter if an injector is "off spec'" and still be good for 100-200-300-400K's and offset that against the saving of fuel (my formula is 32 cents p/l instead of $1.54 p/l ), over the same amount of k's. It then comes down to how many liters you use a year and times that by say $1.30.

Time will tell, so far the results here are good.

Anyway, forklift & truck next, then a jap diesel, then td5.

Glad to see there is still some interest.

Cheers, Pete'