Australian Land Rover Owners

Gallery Donate Games Arcade Calendar Markets Shop Chat Subscribe! Files Links
Go Back   Australian Land Rover Owners > The Pinnacles > Discovery > Discovery 1


Discovery 1 Chat specifically relating to Discovery 1's

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #71 (permalink)  
Old 30th April 2011, 08:32 AM
ChatterBox
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Narrogin WA
Posts: 2,833
Thanks: 1,277
Thanked 900 Times in 714 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by HangOver View Post
I thought it was so you dont get any air in the fuel line, apparently the EFI's dont like it and backfire, or can?
Air in the line would be pumped to the fuel rail and returned to the tank I imagine and the engine would probably start to stall as the injectors fail to open properly.

I haven't got my Driver's Handbook here at the moment but I will post later if says anything significant.

Well I am wrong about the 1/4 of a tank full bit from my previous post; the book says re-fuel when the amber light comes on which means 9 litres is left. It does say to never run the tank dry as the catalytic converter will be damaged but it doesn't mention the pump, so I am probably wrong about that as well. My experience of submersible pumps is that they like to be submerged, however, so maybe the 9 litres can achieve that. Apologies for my error,

Cheers Charlie

Last edited by chazza; 30th April 2011 at 08:45 AM. Reason: Misquoted the hand book earlier
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #72 (permalink)  
Old 30th April 2011, 09:08 AM
ChatterBox
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Location: Mackay Qld - but top ender forever
Posts: 2,434
Thanks: 323
Thanked 373 Times in 289 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by disc94 View Post
take it to jason M.R AUTOMOTIVE they r the best redcliffe
This sounds promising, the best I get is about 500km out of 100lt which is 25km per 100km. This is with both the 3.9 and the 4.6 that replaced it, but more power with the 4.6

very early on it got much better fuel economy then dropped to this. It's been like it for years so I will try Jason / MR automotive once the dollars are back in a healthy range.

Also I have LPG and on long trips run the petrol tank dry then swap to gas, I've never had any sort of problems at all? fuel up wait for it to pump up and start it
Reply With Quote
  #73 (permalink)  
Old 30th April 2011, 09:25 AM
bee utey's Avatar
ForumSage
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Crafers West South Australia
Posts: 6,849
Thanks: 301
Thanked 3,221 Times in 2,371 Posts
With regards to the pump requiring to be "submersed", the swirl pot that it lives in has important design features to keep the pump fully submersed until the tank is completely empty. The return line from the rail is so plumbed into the swirl pot to be a "jet pump" for the inlet valve at the lower surface of the swirl pot. The inlet valve prevents fuel running out of the swirl pot when the pump stops. So under normal operation the swirl pot is overflowing until the last litre of fuel has been vacuumed up. No need to panic about needing 1/4 tank unless you are going on very steep angles. Just don't run 100% out of petrol and try to procede on gas, a sure way to cook the pump.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to bee utey For This Useful Post:
chazza (30th April 2011)
  #74 (permalink)  
Old 30th April 2011, 11:34 AM
Master
Silver Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: tasmania
Posts: 317
Thanks: 98
Thanked 62 Times in 49 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz View Post
This sounds promising, the best I get is about 500km out of 100lt which is 25km per 100km. This is with both the 3.9 and the 4.6 that replaced it, but more power with the 4.6
is that not 20l/100km? from memory in other posts you say you get around 25l/100k on lpg (mixer type with O2) so 20l/100k on petrol sounds about right.

(what's happened, you moved from adelaide? it's a long drive to go back to bee utey!)
Reply With Quote
  #75 (permalink)  
Old 30th April 2011, 05:10 PM
ChatterBox
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Location: Mackay Qld - but top ender forever
Posts: 2,434
Thanks: 323
Thanked 373 Times in 289 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by pibby View Post
is that not 20l/100km? from memory in other posts you say you get around 25l/100k on lpg (mixer type with O2) so 20l/100k on petrol sounds about right.

(what's happened, you moved from adelaide? it's a long drive to go back to bee utey!)
Umm just checking to make sure you were paying attention

yes 20lt per 100km not 25

Yeah moved for several reasons, family being the biggest one. and Yes not having Bee Utey on hand will be a hassle. He is the best I have seen with gas and a gentleman to boot as well so I would go to him first second and third to get the gas and tuning sorted out.

for the gas I worked it out on how much it cost me to drive 100km on 98 RON then how much to do the same with gas (done over several runs to make sure of accuracy) then from my dollar value it worked out to be about 10lt per 100km on gas.

$37-00 gas to drive 250km city and Adelaide hills no highway except the down hill run to the city of about 20km on the freeway, and I never drove it gently as I have a lead foot.

Last edited by blitz; 30th April 2011 at 05:13 PM. Reason: more words
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to blitz For This Useful Post:
pibby (30th April 2011)
  #76 (permalink)  
Old 30th April 2011, 05:17 PM
fev fev is offline
Master
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Central Coast
Posts: 210
Thanks: 4
Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts
Just filled up, got 21ish/100km on 98.

Seems fuel makes no diff to town economy, does run better tho so will use norm unleaded in future
Reply With Quote
  #77 (permalink)  
Old 30th April 2011, 05:31 PM
OldBushie
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Location: Avoca Beach
Posts: 8,115
Thanks: 237
Thanked 2,101 Times in 1,662 Posts
Quote:
Just filled up, got 21ish/100km on 98.

Seems fuel makes no diff to town economy, does run better tho so will use norm unleaded in future
Just to clarify, the REASON that 98 gives better economy in modern efis is that they usually have a very high compression ratio and use knock sensors to control pinging by retarding the ignition timing if it detected. The timing is set by teh ECU having a map inbuilt.

So the higher the octane , the lesser pinging the greater advance =the better economy.
The 14CUX has none of this nonsense relying on good old weights and springs. This is the reason that piggyback chips that give much more part throttle advance electronically work so well with a 14CUX.
Regards Philip A

Last edited by PhilipA; 30th April 2011 at 05:32 PM. Reason: double up of quote which didn't show
Reply With Quote
  #78 (permalink)  
Old 1st May 2011, 09:45 AM
ChatterBox
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Location: Mackay Qld - but top ender forever
Posts: 2,434
Thanks: 323
Thanked 373 Times in 289 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipA View Post
Just to clarify, the REASON that 98 gives better economy in modern efis is that they usually have a very high compression ratio and use knock sensors to control pinging by retarding the ignition timing if it detected. The timing is set by teh ECU having a map inbuilt.

So the higher the octane , the lesser pinging the greater advance =the better economy.
The 14CUX has none of this nonsense relying on good old weights and springs. This is the reason that piggyback chips that give much more part throttle advance electronically work so well with a 14CUX.
Regards Philip A

So Philip do you think the piggy back chips are worth it? If so are any of them better than the others?
Reply With Quote
  #79 (permalink)  
Old 1st May 2011, 10:41 AM
OldBushie
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 1970
Location: Avoca Beach
Posts: 8,115
Thanks: 237
Thanked 2,101 Times in 1,662 Posts
Quote:
So Philip do you think the piggy back chips are worth it? If so are any of them better than the others?
There are several threads on this but really its the best "bang for buck" that you can get but also depends on the dyno operators knowledge of the motor .

The key issue IMHO is that piggy backs take control of the vacuum advance and could probably control the centrifugal advance also. The Chips have a timing map like a more recent ECU. 14CUX fuelling is not too bad but it is also improved.

I have a Unichip fitted by Graeme Cooper but they have now relinquished the franchise and use Haltech. There are several forum members who have fitted Haltech and have reported being happy. These are the only 2 brands I have any experience with.
You will never get as good a result as Thor or GEMS because they both rely on knock sensors to retard if pinging occurs so can run advance right up on the knock limit. The advance of chip is usually conservative as the dyno tuner doesn't want burnt pistion comebacks should someone have had 98 in for the tune then go back to 91 for example, and this does happen.
Cooper's tune had about 4 degrees static advance but I have now got it up to 8 with no pinging on 91 even though there is about an extra 10-15 degrees at light throttle and 3 at full from the chip program..

Regards Philip A
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to PhilipA For This Useful Post:
Fulbore (1st May 2011)
  #80 (permalink)  
Old 1st May 2011, 09:00 PM
Fulbore's Avatar
Fossicker
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bundaberg, Queensland.
Posts: 14
Thanks: 25
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipA View Post
There are several threads on this but really its the best "bang for buck" that you can get but also depends on the dyno operators knowledge of the motor .

The key issue IMHO is that piggy backs take control of the vacuum advance and could probably control the centrifugal advance also. The Chips have a timing map like a more recent ECU. 14CUX fuelling is not too bad but it is also improved.

I have a Unichip fitted by Graeme Cooper but they have now relinquished the franchise and use Haltech. There are several forum members who have fitted Haltech and have reported being happy. These are the only 2 brands I have any experience with.
You will never get as good a result as Thor or GEMS because they both rely on knock sensors to retard if pinging occurs so can run advance right up on the knock limit. The advance of chip is usually conservative as the dyno tuner doesn't want burnt pistion comebacks should someone have had 98 in for the tune then go back to 91 for example, and this does happen.
Cooper's tune had about 4 degrees static advance but I have now got it up to 8 with no pinging on 91 even though there is about an extra 10-15 degrees at light throttle and 3 at full from the chip program..

Regards Philip A
Is it possible to retro-fit a newer system to an old GEMS engine? A few people I've known over the years have removed the Buick V8 and put in Holden ones, with all their added weight and other issues. However, I would like to keep the original engine and have it rebuilt in the next 12-18 months. If I can only go with a piggy-back unit, so be it, but if better somputer and induction systems can be installed, I just wonder who would do it and how much it would cost? Any thoughts?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Search AULRO.com ONLY!
Search All the Web!

All times are GMT +10. The time now is 04:28 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Live Threads provided by AJAX Threads v1.1.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Australian Land Rover Owners
Copyright 2001 - 2014, Dave Blears Computing - DavecandoIT and aulro.com