Thread: Remapping EU2 motors - a word of warning

I've used Td5 Map Editor to copy the tuning differences from the incorrect NNN000130 base map file across to the correct NNN500030. This has transformed the way the remap behaves and I'm pretty impressed with the way it drives.

Fixing this basic issue has also reduced the number of errors reported quite significantly:

NANOCOM - TD5ENG.APP - TD5 ENGINE fault file

(4,3) COOLANT TEMPERATURE CIRCUIT, (LOGGED HIGH).
---
(6,3) COOLANT TEMPERATURE CIRCUIT, (CURRENT).
---
(24,7) PROBLEMS DETECTED WITH AUTO GEARBOX, (CURRENT).
---

and

NANOCOM - D2AGB.APP - DISCOII AUTO GEARBOX fault file

CODE P1843
CAN TIMEOUT MONITORING
---
CODE P1842
CAN LEVEL MONITORING
---

so far better than previous, although I'm not particularly happy given that these faults don't appear when running a factory map, nor with the BD MSB ECU. These appear to be the result of using a EU3 base map rather than one designed for an EU2 motor.

"so far better than previous, although I'm not particularly happy given that these faults don't appear when running a factory map, nor with the BD MSB ECU."


So to clarify, the BD ecu is fine? This upgrade was from another vendor and not BD?

I have a 99 I am going to upgrade and obviously want to avoid these issues, so just want to clarify what you are saying.
Who was the other vendor? If you don't want to publicly say, I'd appreciate a pm.

Why did you find it necessary to change from the BD if that is working fine just out of curiosity?

Cheers
Kev

Originally Posted by bigkevg

"so far better than previous, although I'm not particularly happy given that these faults don't appear when running a factory map, nor with the BD MSB ECU."


So to clarify, the BD ecu is fine? This upgrade was from another vendor and not BD?

I have a 99 I am going to upgrade and obviously want to avoid these issues, so just want to clarify what you are saying.
Who was the other vendor? If you don't want to publicly say, I'd appreciate a pm.

Why did you find it necessary to change from the BD if that is working fine just out of curiosity?

Cheers
Kev

Hi Kev,

Due to the forums name and shame rules I can't say who has done the remap, but it isn't from an .au vendor.

The BD is ok but tends to be very clattery on light throttle openings and is a bit all or nothing from low throttle opening. I'm not sure if it is a stage 1 or 2 map but it's a bit raucous and "boy racer" for my tastes. Maybe I'm getting a bit pedestrian because I've been enjoying the factory map as a contrast.

As I mentioned above now that I've moved the tuned portions to a base map for the correct ECU (NNN500030) the remap is pretty impressive - it's very smooth (and goes like the clappers as a bonus) which I what I was after and doesn't suffer from the general nastiness that I was getting with the .map file as supplied by the vendor.

The ONLY faults I get with the BD rechip AND the NNN with a LR factory map are related to the EGR which has been removed. The other faults are purely the result of the base file being used for the remap. Oddly enough the EGR faults don't come up with the EU3 base file, so this points to "wires being crossed" but this seems to be brushed off by many as "ghost faults". I have read comments on UK forums by Ian from IRB Tuning which seem to indicate these faults may actually be detrimental to performance.

While not quite the quote I was thinking of this makes the point I think,

You can use a later Flash type ECU (part number NNN*****) but you need to program it with files suitable for an earlier EU2 engines. Using the wrong files (i.e. later ones) is not good - there are lots of differences in the engines - not all TD5's are the same!

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php'showtopic=29037&#entry287370

And the other one I was thinking of:

The great misconception is that a Td5 is a Td5 - so will run with any ECU, and any files.... technically it will run, but is not ideal, and not without faults.

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php'showtopic=32876&st=20#entry319519


I can see WHY the EU3 base files are being used - there are more tables for fuelling, responsiveness and throttle that can be tweaked so it is easier for the tuner to get the desired result. Plus they don't have to worry about learning the ins and outs of two distinctly different map architectures.

cheers
Paul

Offtrack, this information is gold.
You have just saved me a lot of headaches.

Not one of the tuning companies I have spoken to have said anything about this issue when using a remapped NNN ecu to replace a MSB ecu.
What I have picked up is that quite a few companies are resellers and therefore cannot answer questions about the finer details.

I was considering an off the shelf remapped NNN ecu which I have been assured would be compatible but in all likelihood has a EU3 base map.

I am now thinking that having my MSB 're-chipped' is the way to go.

I am also interested why you didn't stick with the BD remapped MSB.

Thanks
Ryan

Ryan,

There isn't really an issue IF you use the correct base map for the early engines.

Basically you have 4 types (five in actual fact but lets not complicate things) of ECU, two of which are suitable for the Auto and two suitable for the Manual.

For the Auto you can use either a NNN000130 or NNN500030.

For the Manual you can use either a NNN000120 or NNN500020.

When the MSB ECU's were phased out LR produced map files that allow the NNN ECU's to work correctly with the EU2/10P engines. These can be generated by the Nanocom map wizard for example.

Realistically there is one map for each ECU that you want to use as a base for remapping:
NNN000120: sttdp009-sthde021.map
NNN000130: sutdp012-suhde036.map
NNN500020: sttdp010-sthde021.map
NNN500030: sutdp014-suhde036.map

Each of these will allow a NNN ECU to work with zero faults on an EU2 engine.

The only reason you get faults is if the tuner is using the EU3 map with adjustments to make the injectors work with the earlier engines. It won't be an issue if you buy a remap from company that knows how to work with the EU2 maps.

I've been told by other members that you need to be very careful about exhaust gas temps if you are running an adapted EU3 maps.

cheers
Paul

You mean like my spreadsheet...

http://www.users.on.net/~tombraider/...2_Map_list.pdf

Originally Posted by Tombie

You mean like my spreadsheet...

http://www.users.on.net/~tombraider/...2_Map_list.pdf

Yes, like that one.

There is a excel posted to AULRO based on the Testbook database which is possibly more comprehensive but your spreadsheet is to the point.

BTW are you still selling BAS remaps or do I need to talk to them direct now?

cheers
Paul

This is a post from Pete Bell of Bell Auto Services from a few years ago re: the avalanche of errors on remapped ecus.

Fault Codes after ECU upgrade

There are generaly 3 reasons fof these faults to be there.

1st the faults do actualy existin the ecu

2nd Or are part of the tipical TD5 ghost fault codes that do come and go as and when on some cars.

3rd and most likley IF they were not present before tuning, The mapping done to the ecu is WRONG for the ecu part number and a generic (one fits all) mapping had been done.
Its not a problem if the car is running good but in some cases the conversion of mapping does cause pages of faults like this.

Regards Pete