Thread: D2 watts link conversion to D1 A frame

One of the things that gets me, and I'm not bagging anyone in particular here. One thing I see is rather than working with what there is massive attempts made to re-engineer systems back to "known" designs because they work.



The watts linkage as depicted above can be used quite effectively in this situation, it just needs to be understood and worked with. If you looked there are also limitations with the a frame (not to mention having to change the ball joint PITA). The watts should provide better centralization. It will also give a central rotational pivot point (the mount) which for our purposes shouldn't have a travel limit.

You can also reverse the mounting system, that is mount point P to the chassis and L1 & L2 to the axle. This will change the principal slightly and reduce unsprung mass but that's not what we're really looking at. The linkage can also be used in pairs longitudinally as in trailing arms.

I have another forum I run personally (http://www.v-eight.com) for a totally unrelated topic and some of the re-engineering that people want to do is amazing. If you're looking at redesigning the back end you might as well go all the way 4 bar twin shock coil overs.

great explaination but it does not do what you illustration says it can,in my experience
firstly your blue line(L2) in comparison to the green(L1&L3) line looks out of ratio with the watts linkage which is your blue line ,could you supply your measurement for L1 and L2 and L3,as this is the reason i posted this up to get good feedback ,to see if this would be a goer i will be taken a step back and accessing Slunnies post in the GCLRO section

a 4 bar twin shock coilover would be ideal but would not be ideal to my bank account so i try work with what we can ,bearing in mind my D2 is not a drive to the shops car like most D2
cheers kelvin

Have you thought about the Rovertym HP Watts link?



Baz.

Originally Posted by disco_thrasher

As we all know the great struggle to create flex in our rear of our D2 and it all comes down to that cursed thing the WATTS LINK

Sorry, but I have to disagree here...

The Watts link can be clearanced to avoid contact, but the Flex is limited by the bushings at the end of the lower arms.

Custom arms with spherical bearings/rose joints may work far better, check legality though... They can break with interesting results!

I'll have to flex up the D2 and County together and compare, it sounds like a lot of work that could result in a backwards step.

Do Superpro make bushes for the watts linkage?

Originally Posted by Tombie2

Sorry, but I have to disagree here...

The Watts link can be clearanced to avoid contact, but the Flex is limited by the bushings at the end of the lower arms.

Custom arms with spherical bearings/rose joints may work far better, check legality though... They can break with interesting results!

Rose joints in the radius arms will top any articulation at all. The bushes at the axle end need to be able to flex to allow articulation

Originally Posted by dobbo

I'll have to flex up the D2 and County together and compare, it sounds like a lot of work that could result in a backwards step.

Do Superpro make bushes for the watts linkage?

The watts linkage has spherical joints in it which are a better joint for that particular part. Superpro type bushes would be the go for those between the axle and the radius arms.

I agree that the limiting factor are the bushes(apart from the overall design of the arms).
The same thing happens with the front of D1 's (and patrols and g'wagens), maybe some slotted bushes for the rear will improve things?

Strange how things happen. Ran into Disco thrasher today, small world, I was 24 hrs behind him looking at how to fit coil over shocks and a A-frame at Wizards.Now im reading about it on the site
Im going this way at the moment for the rear trailing + the coil over shock's 3º Castor Corrected Radius Arm from Qt Services Limited in the site under the index.

Im going to keep the Watts as Ive already twisted and welded the upper driverside arm by a few degrees and think by building the lower arm it should work fine,already ground out 15mm of the mount, maybe test shorter lengths, At the end of the day, how far do you go until its full roll cage stuff,I think that the A frame is a good idea but, Welding extea mounts, changing trailing arm mounts to singles, there is alot of work and money involved.
As Slunnie and a few have said rose joints are the way to go adding alot of extra flex while keeping the original mounts.
Test this first, if it does not work, the A frame is in.

Yours