Thread: When is a road a public road?

If its "Gazetted".

I think,,,

Originally Posted by Pedro_The_Swift

If its "Gazetted".

I think,,,

Yep, thats right. Have a shot at the Council responsible for the area and tell them about the signs you saw. They'd have boundary lines on a map somewhere and should be able to tell you.

Gazetted means 'passed into Law and advertised for public knowledge', same as stuff like changing speed limits and letting everyone know and so on.

It probably varies a little from state to state, and I can only comment directly on the NSW situation, but it is probably much the same in other states.

If it is "road" as far as property ownership is concerned (shown as such on the cadastral map), public access is allowed, even if it is not maintained, and even if it is leased from the state by the landowner, and the landowner is required to have gates on the road (although they may not always exist in practice).

There are two caveats on this -

1. The actual track may deviate from the cadastral map, and where this does, you have no right to be. For example, I have such a road round two sides of my property, but there are places where the passable track deviates considerably from it.

2. In NSW the state has been trying to sell a lot of these roads to landowners, and these sales are not necessarily reflected on the maps yet. For example, there is a road across my place that was bought by the bloke I bought this from twenty years ago. It is still shown as a road on some cadastral maps.

Even if it is a council maintained road, although this usually means it is public access, it does not always - there was a case near here not too long ago where a farmer, worried about liability, blocked off a council maintained road that crossed several hundred yards that were his - I think it was one of the deviations from the mapped road mentioned in 1 above.

Best bet is to phone the Lands Department or the Council and find out exactly what its status is. Even if it is private, the owner may well agree to letting you use it if you ask and he has not had problems with unwanted visitors before.

John

Originally Posted by WhiteD3

Went out to do a bit of a recce today, looking for a linking track between Kobble Crk (Sth of Dayboro) and Raynbird Rd. Coming from the Mt Samson Rd side a I found two promising roads that turned into single lane tracks. Following both I came up to signs on both roads saying "Private property, keep out".

Now, the first road looks (from Google earth) to go exactly where I want it to go but has a gate across it with the private prop sign attached.

The second road went in the same general direction, no gate but had the sign. There was obvious council road markers continuing past this point.

So, how can you tell if a track is actually a public road? Do property owners have the right to block such a road/track?

I understand why they would; who'd want a bunch of 4WDs traveling through their backyard.

Isn't Raynbird Rd up towards Narangba ????

Originally Posted by jbarracl

Isn't Raynbird Rd up towards Narangba ????

Could be the same road, different end.

You have two types of road classifications to consider: Council Road or Crown Road Reserve

Access to a property/block I visit is via a Council Road and then via a Crown Road Reserve. The property owner continually locks the gate on the Council Road. This is illegal. They get very bitter and twisted each time we cut the chain, and call in their lawyer, who is put in his place regarding the use of the Council Road.

Going by the Council and NSW Dept of Lands maps, the property tracks do not follow the Council Road exactly, but the lawyer agrees that we would be better travelling on the existing track rather than make a new track exactly on the Council Road. The property owner does not agree that we have any access etc etc.

I found that once I contacted the Dept of Lands, explained where I was trying to drive etc, they helped with maps/ photos etc to support my case.

I am pleased that the track we use is the only access to the property/block we are going to, so they will always be retained as Council Road and Crown Road Reserve, and cannot be bought by the property owner!
Needless to say the property we drive through has been so severely over grazed and abused for so many years, no amount of driving, be it on the track or the actual Council Road etc will make it any worse!

Gazetted roads are public thoroughfares and as such all have the right to traverse them.

However...

Private land holders through whose land a gazetted road runs and where that road accesses only land parcels held by them, may apply to the local council to have a road closed with a locked gate. This makes sense since if a single landholder is the only one serviced by a road, why should anybody else need to use it? The road is effectively just an access easement for their exclusive benefit. There are other issues like safety from stray stock etc.

Councils are also always looking at ways they can cut down on maintenance costs so if a landholder asks to close a road, then the maintenance becomes their problem.

You need to check with the local council to see if the road has been approved to be gated, or the neighbouring landholder is just doing it because they want more privacy. If you discover the latter, I am not sure but I believe you can cut the lock.

Originally Posted by solmanic

Gazetted roads are public thoroughfares and as such all have the right to traverse them.

However...

Private land holders through whose land a gazetted road runs and where that road accesses only land parcels held by them, may apply to the local council to have a road closed with a locked gate. This makes sense since if a single landholder is the only one serviced by a road, why should anybody else need to use it? The road is effectively just an access easement for their exclusive benefit. There are other issues like safety from stray stock etc.

<snip>

we have a couple of roads through here that we lease from the crown, they are formally 'closed' and as such we have the same rights as any lessee, so there is no public access.
It helps that they merely show on the map, they have never, ever existed in practice (and there are a few bloody great gum trees growing through the middle of them )