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Thread: New heater matrix - issues

  1. #1
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    New heater matrix - issues

    I recently bought a new heater matrix from Island 4x4 uk as my (I believe) original 146K matrix leaked coolant, but not through the o-rings, rather through the vent tubes over the transmission. After removing the leaking matrix and receiving the replacement part there are a few questions that I need to ask.

    The original matrix is marked clearly as a Valeo genuine part, as is the heater box and most of its parts attached. That matrix has copper-looking pipes with aluminised fins. I read before that the copper pipes could create an undesired chemical reaction with the OAT-based coolant blocking the corroded matrix, even though the tank is plastic. Can anyone advise me as the replacement matrix looks and feels all aluminium with a plastic tank.

    Next, when I ordered this matrix Island 4x4 offered two brands, Eurospare-OEM (listed also as GM-Radiator, a Scotland business whose engine radiator that I bought from Karcraft that seemed well made and marked as GM-R) and a more expensive Britpart. When the I checked this heater matrix arrived it was unmarked. Does anyone bought this GM matrix and was it marked as its brand? Does anyone have a experience with this type of this replacement matrix? I am aware that several members here replaced theirs with the Audi type, although I concerned with Steve's recent experience.

    Lastly, when I opened my parts parcel I noticed that the plastic tank of the heater matrix had several loose plastic shavings floating around in it. I carefully shook them out. When that happened I then saw a larger white coloured plastic piece (see below) inside the 'out' tank port. I tried to remove it but is seems to be part of a seal and it is still trapped inside the tank, perhaps part of the manufacturing process. Does anyone know what it is as I will have to cut it out at some time? If no-one knows then I'll ask Island 4x4 and see what they say. I won't fiddle with this until I also test the tank with air, and then later with water. If the tank holds pressure, and then clearly flows water then I will cut and remove as much as I can of this piece to prevent any further obstruction.

    Then I can replace the matrix and connect it into the coolant system, and the coolant level sensor, water pump, radiator and thermostat which are waiting in line. There are also a couple of other pictures that show the metal parts that I cut out from the dash frame for me to remove the heater matrix.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    MY00' P38 4.6 HSE

  2. #2
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    Mate

    There is definitely copper there as you said, so no OATS coolant !

    Also to me that bit of plastic looks like a bit of left over junk from the manufacturing process, I would be asking Island 4x4 about it

    Steve

  3. #3
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    I've sent a message with a couple of questions and a picture of the loose seal to Island 4x4 to see if they have any experience with this heater matrix, but they may never have held these parts in stock to compare them.

    Steve,

    yes, I was surprised about the copper pipes too, and I want to have a look inside to see if they're aluminised inside the copper tubes - as some have, but I want to find the leak first and see what failed before I pull it apart. At the moment I need to make a setup to pressurise these old and new matrices. 20psi should be enough for air or water to do the job although I need to find what the main water lines pressure standards are, which I've never measured.
    MY00' P38 4.6 HSE

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by garybrook View Post
    20psi should be enough for air or water to do the job although I need to find what the main water lines pressure standards are, which I've never measured.
    Gary

    I imagine that water pressure has min and max figures. I am sure we have all seen poor but within spec water pressure as well as water pressure which blows you away when you turn the tap on!

    It's a sad state of affairs when you have to go to these lengths to test "new" parts

    Steve

  5. #5
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    Just having a look at these pics you posted & the piece of plastic looks like a drilling swarf?? not sure its part of manufacturing process for this part so can't htink how it would get in there.
    Secondly I was wondering if you have made some sort of brkt/plate to remount the metal brkt that yoy have removed to access core?

  6. #6
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    I will have a look through my boxes of "p38 stuff" to see if I still have the old heater matrix from when I did the conversion to an Audi unit a while back.

    I am also in Canberra, and you can have my old heater core if I can find it. I also have heaps of of heater core o-rings so don't go searching

    Cheers, Paul.
    My toys, projects and write-ups at PaulP38a.com

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by FANTOM P38 View Post
    Just having a look at these pics you posted & the piece of plastic looks like a drilling swarf?? not sure its part of manufacturing process for this part so can't htink how it would get in there.
    Secondly I was wondering if you have made some sort of brkt/plate to remount the metal brkt that yoy have removed to access core?
    Interesting Fantom, yeah is does look like a swarf, yet it's synthetic, but not really foam as it's harder and I couldn't pull it out as it's trapped, in some way.

    I needed an opinion so I took both radiators to Renners Radiators while I was in Fyshwick. It's a one-man business and I spoke to him when my main radiator tank leaked around the spigot, but I didn't spend any money at that time and still haven't. Maybe next time, air-conditioning work I think, withreal money.

    Anyway, he still spoke to me even when I walked in with the pair of heater matrices. He told me that 'swarf' is pushed into the round tubes of the matrix to swirl the coolant to preventing deposits and slow the coolant. It's a design element as he had a sectioned sample that shown the same swirly (helix/helical) stuff. Yes, I'm showing up, but I'm still re-learning.

    When I told him I intended to test the heaters he took them off me and tested in his own tank using compressed air. Neither of them leaked, which is both good and not so good. He told me the heaters may not leak when they are cold, but will when they are hot. Mine did leak when the car was hot after driving for about 400km on the day I bought it. After I re-routed and sealed the system I replaced 1-2 litres of water and it held up when I drove home that night. I may still test the old heater as I'd like to know why it leaked, but this could be more complex.

    I'm going to install the new matrix, even though it's un-named, light and don't think it will survive for very long, certainly compared to the heavier
    Valeo original one. I've started already and yes, will need to install new brackets and nylocks in the dash frame, which isn't structural even when I didn't hack it out. I taped up and marked up the drill holes before I cut the frame as some of the holes couldn't be drilled out until the frame was out. It took me a while to think that one out, and I may not have yet.

    Paul,

    thanks for the offer of your other heater, and a couple of spare o-rings. I though you were in town here somewhere so I'll send you a PM with my numbers so you can call if you find the bits. I've had a look at several of your own pages before and I'm grateful for your efforts. Regards,

    Gary.
    MY00' P38 4.6 HSE

  8. #8
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    Well I eventually installed my new matrix with Paul's new o-rings and bled the cooling system and at the moment it's working, as it should. I'll drive it around for a while before travelling further but I still need to replace the frame and ducting so there's plenty more to do yet.

    When I pulled the dash and console out I found that many of the plastic parts mounting "tags" we're broken so they can't be repaired, which bothers me a bit. Does anyone know any wrecking P38s nearby to Canberra that I could buy/pull out some plastic parts?
    MY00' P38 4.6 HSE

  9. #9
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    Thumbs up

    I got one of those from Island and was worried about the plastic swarf asked a friend of mine he said helps stir it all up bunged it in all good for about 2 yrs now

  10. #10
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    Don't forget to clean the drain hole's that go from under the core and exit the gearbox tunnel you can end up with moister on passenger floor and think it's still leaking ; As I did OOP'S

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