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Thread: "Reg - The series 2a build

  1. #1
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    "Reg - The series 2a build

    So I have my new 1963 landy ute! But there are no brakes. The story i got from the previous owner was that the vehicle had sat stationary in a puddle on there property for about 1 hr. The car was recovered and placed in the shed. the brakes have not worked since. With the vehicle running, the brake pedal falls to the floor and there is no amount of pumping will bring the pedal up. So what i'm looking for is the best place to start. There is fluid in the master cylinder. I think that maybe the brake mechs at the wheels are seized and that if I pull these assemblies apart and free it all up the brakes should return!! Just though i would ask if anyone have an idea of the best place to start.

    PS I can get the car up to the garage until I fix the brakes!! So can't start the resto!!

    Cheers

    Chris
    1960 SWB Series 2 UTE
    1963 LWB Series 2a UTE

  2. #2
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    if nothing else a landy with genuine brakes is the same as a landy with no brakes!!
    (REMLR 235/MVCA 9) 80" -'49.(RUST), -'50 & '52. (53-parts) 88" -57 s1, -'63 -s2a -GS x 2-"Horrie"-112-769, "Vet"-112-429(-Vietnam-PRE 1ATF '65) ('66, s2a-as UN CIVPOL), Hans '73- s3 109" '56 s1 x2 77- s3 van (gone)& '12- 110

  3. #3
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    The wheel cylinders may well be seized if the truck has been sittin idle for years, but if the master cylinder reservoir is full and the pedal goes to the floor and doesn't pump up then the master cyl is the problem.
    Wagoo.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by tibbsy View Post
    So I have my new 1963 landy ute! But there are no brakes. The story i got from the previous owner was that the vehicle had sat stationary in a puddle on there property for about 1 hr. The car was recovered and placed in the shed. the brakes have not worked since. With the vehicle running, the brake pedal falls to the floor and there is no amount of pumping will bring the pedal up. So what i'm looking for is the best place to start. There is fluid in the master cylinder. I think that maybe the brake mechs at the wheels are seized and that if I pull these assemblies apart and free it all up the brakes should return!! Just though i would ask if anyone have an idea of the best place to start.

    PS I can get the car up to the garage until I fix the brakes!! So can't start the resto!!

    Cheers

    Chris
    Hey Chris,

    Did they say how the brakes were before the vehicle sat in the water....?? How deep was this "puddle"??

    You mention "with the vehicle running" - does this mean that it has a vacuum servo fitted now? When the brake pedal goes to the floor, is there any resistance at all?

    If everything else was alright and the wheel cyliders were all seized, you'd be more likey to get a pedal that was as hard as a rock, but still with no braking.

    If hitting the pedal gives you no joy at present, there are lots of things to check out. If you do have reason for concern over the wheel cylinders, pull off the drums (which I guess you'll be doing anyway) and see if the cylinders are seized or leaking, that the springs are on the shoes properly, and not broken and that the adjusters have the shoes set close to the drum linings. Up top, you can check the master cylinder pushrod and its adjustment - and keep an eye out everywhere for leaks.

    If everything seems alright, try bleeding the brakes and see what comes out....

    I hope this helps for a start. Do you have access to a manual?

    Cheers,

    John

  5. #5
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    digger - Sounds like an Armstron Siddley!! My dad had one that you would have to set up to stop the car!! Pump 2-3 times and then start to slow!!!!

    Johnno1969 - Thanks!! The puddle was deep enough that the some if not all of the drums would be in the water.

    Running vehicle - unfortunately the vehicle has been fitted with a holden 186 (eventually I want to fit an orginal diesel into it), so not sure about the vaccum servo but will check (keeping in mind that I'm very much learning). There is no restistance from the pedal at all. I don't know what the brake was like before the puddle, but I assume that there was at least a pedal. he told be that the master cylinder was new. But of course i'm not taking his word for it.

    My first thought was that the wheel cylinders had seized or the mech around the wheel cylinders, but then I was confused as I thought the would be a hard pedal. I did think about the cylinder leaking! That is what got me thinking that there could be an issue closer to the pedal.

    I think that you have clarified that I will start with the wheel braking mech and move from there. I think that once I get the drum off one wheel I will get an idea of where I am!!

    I just need the brakes working to get the car up to the garage, i'm not comfortable driving it up there until I get brakes!!

    Hey thanks again for your help!!
    1960 SWB Series 2 UTE
    1963 LWB Series 2a UTE

  6. #6
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    i would say the same if your slave cylinders were seized then the pedal would be solid. i would, check for leaks, but would have to be pretty major for the pedal to go to the floor and you would notice the resovoir emptying after pumping for a while. also check the flexi hoses for leaks. i would try bleeding clean fluid through the system, if the pedal still goes to the floor, i would say your master cyl is stuffed. and the fluid is leaking straight past the piston. and maybe into the servo... (had that once on a toyota. got brake fluid in the engine oil, through the vac system. that was fun, not sure if that can happen on a landy). or it is just leaking back past the master piston back into the res.

    what you can do to test if you have a leaking wheel cylinder without taking the wheels off. is bleed the system first and if the pedal is still going straight to the floor, get some vice grips (or some other clamp) and go and clamp off all the flexi hoses. if the pedal is hard then the master cyl is fine. then undo one clamp and try the pedal it should still be stiff but have a bit more movement. do this for the remaining clamps, and if you undo one and the pedal goes soft that wheel is the trouble. just chuck the clamp back on and the brakes should work enough to stop you driving slowly. (have actually driven home with the rear clamped off like that, also a POS 'indestructible' toyota)


    Tangus

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by tibbsy View Post
    digger - Sounds like an Armstron Siddley!! My dad had one that you would have to set up to stop the car!! Pump 2-3 times and then start to slow!!!!

    Johnno1969 - Thanks!! The puddle was deep enough that the some if not all of the drums would be in the water.

    Running vehicle - unfortunately the vehicle has been fitted with a holden 186 (eventually I want to fit an orginal diesel into it), so not sure about the vaccum servo but will check (keeping in mind that I'm very much learning). There is no restistance from the pedal at all. I don't know what the brake was like before the puddle, but I assume that there was at least a pedal. he told be that the master cylinder was new. But of course i'm not taking his word for it.

    My first thought was that the wheel cylinders had seized or the mech around the wheel cylinders, but then I was confused as I thought the would be a hard pedal. I did think about the cylinder leaking! That is what got me thinking that there could be an issue closer to the pedal.

    I think that you have clarified that I will start with the wheel braking mech and move from there. I think that once I get the drum off one wheel I will get an idea of where I am!!

    I just need the brakes working to get the car up to the garage, i'm not comfortable driving it up there until I get brakes!!

    Hey thanks again for your help!!

    No worries, Chris. The lack of pedal could come from any one of a number of causes. Just work your way through the components. I doubt that the vehicle would have servo-assisted brakes. More likely you'll have the standard single system with no servo-assistance. If the old owner replaced the master cylinder, that could mean that the system has not been bled properly and there's air in it. But, basically, whatever faults you find or wherever you find them, it's a good idea to check out all the compoments (this includes solid lines and flexible hoses) anyway.

    Ideally, what you are aiming for at the end of the day is a system with:


    • Master cylinder operating properly and with the freeplay adjustment on the pushrod correct
    • All lines and hoses in good condition
    • wheel cylinders operating freely
    • brake shoes with good linings, and springs correctly fitted
    • brake shoes adjusted to correct clearance from the drums
    • drum internal diameters withing tolerable limits of wear
    • No hydraulic leaks

    If you're still getting familiar with the vehicle, a Haynes manual for the Series IIa would be a worthwhile purchase. The procedures, diagrams and pictures therein will be a real help, along with the sagacious advice from the good folk on this forum.

    Oh, and commiserations on the Holden motor.

    John

  8. #8
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    Start from the pedal! If there is fluid in the reservoir (and make sure it is in the brake (outer) section, not just the clutch section!), and the pedal goes straight to the floor, there are several possibilities.

    1. Pedal is not operating the m/c. Could be due to the nut having moved along the pushrod. You can check this by removing the cover held by six small screws on the top of the pedal box.

    2. Faulty m/c. Most likely case. check by loosening the union on the output of the m/c and see if this pumps fluid.

    3. M/c is working, but there is so much air in the system there is no resistance (bleed the brakes), or there is so much free play on the brake shoes that the pedal hits the floor before the shoes hit the drums. Check that fluid is getting to the wheel cylinders by bleeding a bit of fluid, then try adjusting the shoes until the wheel locks. Do this for all wheels. With all wheels locked by adjustment, you should have a solid pedal (assuming previous checks work OK. If not, you may be able to isolate the problem a bit by clamping off all the brake lines and release them one at a time.

    If there is one or more wheels that you cannot lock by adjustment, this may be where the problem is. In any case, I would be inclined to remove all drums to check condition of linings and drums and cylinders.

    Note that it is very unlikely that the 2a originally was fitted with a brake booster (it was an option, but I don't recall ever seeing one that early) but it may have had one fitted after market - I know I had one on my 58 2a when that one was sold new. If fitted early in its life it will be an in line booster, probably a PBR VH44 located in the LH mudguard, but a recent fitting is more likely to use the m/c and integrated booster off a Series 3.

    Hope this helps.

    John
    John

    JDNSW
    1986 110 County 3.9 diesel
    1970 2a 109 2.25 petrol

  9. #9
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    Once you get started, there will be no stopping you.......HA hahha haaaaa......... ~sigh~

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by d@rk51d3 View Post
    Once you get started, there will be no stopping you.......HA hahha haaaaa......... ~sigh~
    Heh eheheheheh......

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