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Series III Chat specifically relating to Series III leaf sprung Land Rovers and variations.

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Old 20th June 2011, 06:49 AM
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Front hub help...please.

Hi all. I have no real mechanical apptitude, but willing to give it a go. Apologies in advance for newby questions!

She is a 1976 109, been in the family since new, with minimal maintenance...

RHS front brakes started underperforming (locking LHS without provocation) accompanied by oil around the hub. So I pulled a few things off to look for a cause. Sorry you need to turn your heads on the side for this one.


It has after market Free Wheeling hubs


Hubs were oild filled which was a surprise as trusty Haynes says Grease filled? I guess it is now oil because of the free wheeling hubs?

I am guessing the leak which has contaminated the brake linings is from the seal at the back? Most likely?
So big question is what do I need to replace?

I am guessing these three seals at a minimum...(photo includes one of the allen bolts from the hub, two different head sizes! One head rounded out )






Anything else? Gaskets? There was some sort of silicon between free wheeling part and hub? Any tips or tricks for reasembly? I think I am going to have to guess axle float..

Being of Scotish decent I am hoping that a degrease and sand of the brake shoes will make them servicable? Plenty of meat left. Or am I kidding myself? This couldn't be further form a daily driver, somtimes sits for a couple of months or more before doing a 5km trip just to turn things over.

Last edited by RaggedJoe; 20th June 2011 at 06:51 AM. Reason: More info
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Old 20th June 2011, 07:14 AM
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The seal that allows oil onto the brakes is the one on the inside of the hub, large one in the top picture. Have a look at the surface the seal runs on on the stub axle. If worn significantly the stub axle will need to be replaced unless it is the earlier type with a replaceable ring, which it does not look like. If you do not replace it, expect the seal to work initially, but to fail early.

It is not necessary to replace any of the other seals, but probably a good idea to replace all of them. You need a new gasket between the free wheel hub and the hub.

The wheel bearing adjustment can be approximated without a dial gauge. It should be tight enough that free play is barely perceptible with the wheel on the hub, and does not provide any drag. First tighten until difficult to turn, then back off about 1/3 turn, tighten the locknut and check there is no resistance to turning, loosening a small amount at a time until there is none.

Bearings on Series 3 are oil lubricated from the swivel, but are greased on assembly for initial lubrication. (Series 1 had a plug on the drive flange so you could fill with oil for initial lubrication, this was dropped during Series 2 production.)
Check the bearings while you are at it, but being oil lubricated, they are probably perfectly OK.
It is considered bad practice to degrease brake shoes, as doing it effectively is virtually impossible. You need to replace brake shoes on both sides, and probably a good idea to replace the seal on the other side while you are at it.


John
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Old 20th June 2011, 08:02 AM
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John, many thanks. this forum never fails to amaze with prompt helpful advice!

Sorry, more questions

So the oil comes through the axle from the swivel to lubricate the hub? Noted to grease for initial lubrication.

Can you define "worn signifciantly" for the seal surface? Having never seen one before it is hard to know. I really don't want to replace stub axles. Pushing the bounds of my mechanical confidence as it is!

Bearings look fine to my untrained eye. Noted re brake shoes, will take your advice.

Cheers RJ
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Old 20th June 2011, 08:23 AM
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If you can catch a finger nail in the groove worn by the seal, it is time to replace it. If it is lightly scored by the seal, sometimes a rub with fine wet-and-dry paper will restore it to useable condition.

The old seal race can be removed with a large cold chisel and heavy hammer cutting parallel with the stub axle to loosen it - I usually drill a hole partially through the race first. When you install the new race put some Loctite 515 or similar under the race to make a good oil seal,

Cheers Charlie
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Old 20th June 2011, 08:28 AM
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Thanks Charlie

Will use finger nail on the surface and see how it feels.

Sorry but I have no idea what you are talking about with regard to removing seal race.

Will consult Haynes and see if I can work it out.

Chers RJ
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Old 20th June 2011, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chazza View Post
If you can catch a finger nail in the groove worn by the seal, it is time to replace it. If it is lightly scored by the seal, sometimes a rub with fine wet-and-dry paper will restore it to useable condition.

The old seal race can be removed with a large cold chisel and heavy hammer cutting parallel with the stub axle to loosen it - I usually drill a hole partially through the race first. When you install the new race put some Loctite 515 or similar under the race to make a good oil seal,

Cheers Charlie
Replacing the ring is only possible on earlier stub axles - my first thought was that this did not look like one but on closer inspection maybe it is. But possibly a bit of a moot point as it seems Joe is most uncertain about his ability to do this!

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Old 20th June 2011, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaggedJoe View Post
.......

Bearings look fine to my untrained eye. .....

Cheers RJ
If the bearings look OK - look for roughness on the races and rollers - and turn smoothly with no hint of roughness, then they are OK. Cleanliness is essential, as you probably realise, and never spin the bearings dry using compressed air. never leave them completely clean of all oil for more than a very short time, at the very least give them a coat of WD-40 or similar to prevent rust, and keep them covered to keep dust off.

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Old 20th June 2011, 10:49 AM
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Correct. Baby steps for me.

Just to confirm my assumption, is the oil in the hub feed through the axle from the swivels? So on reassmbly apply some grease to the bearings and then top up the swivels once run if required? No need to put oil in the hub istelf, not that much would fit...
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Old 20th June 2011, 11:51 AM
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Okay, seems AVM parts are hard to find in NZ.

So I need a gasket, maybe an O ring, although it is probably okay to re-use, and a replacement bolt for the rounded one. All twice if I do both sides.

Any sources known in NZ (or Aussie). Should I just go back to fixed hubs seeing as it does limited mileage anyway....?
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Old 20th June 2011, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaggedJoe View Post
Okay, seems AVM parts are hard to find in NZ.

So I need a gasket, maybe an O ring, although it is probably okay to re-use, and a replacement bolt for the rounded one. All twice if I do both sides.

Any sources known in NZ (or Aussie). Should I just go back to fixed hubs seeing as it does limited mileage anyway....?
Not a good idea to reuse 'O' rings as although they often appear OK, they do become moulded to where they were fitted and are not always refitted to the same position. Usually pretty cheap from a bearing supply company anyway.

As JDNSW has said, give those bearings a real good clean out, inspection and reoil before testing for roughness etc.

Going "back to fixed hubs" in your circumstances would IMHO be a good move. Actually the part that replaces the free wheeling hubs are more commonly referred to as 'drive flanges'.
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