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Thread: lithium 12v car batteries

  1. #1
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    lithium 12v car batteries

    the idea of a lithium battery as a second battery or even a primary battery has interested me for a while

    but there seems to be limited info on them. i assume not many people are using them, probably due to cost.




    here is a comparison that i made tonight.


    yellowtop d34 , a common battery, one i use myself.
    55Ah
    750CCA
    255L 174W 200H
    cost is about $300
    300 Cycles to 80% DOD
    20kg

    fusion
    40Ah
    CCA not listed
    195L 130W 168H (smaller than the d34)
    cost is $620
    1740 cycles to 100% DOD
    7kg

    fusion
    75Ah
    CCA not listed
    258L 166W 215H (similar size to the d34)
    cost is $995
    1740 cycles to 100% DOD
    10kg


    ev-power
    60Ah
    CCA not listed
    285L 130W 190H
    cost is $375
    1500 cycles to 80% DOD
    9kg

    ev-power
    100Ah
    CCA not listed
    280L 125W 235H
    cost is $600
    1500 cycles to 80% DOD
    13kg




    links, ive purchased things from 4wdextreme before

    12V 40AH Lithium ION LIFEPO4 Deep Cycle Battery Caravan Solar Camping Solar Golf | eBay

    Deep Cycle Lithium 75AH Caravan 4WD 4x4 Camper Trailer Solar System V LFP 12V 75 | eBay

    12V LFP

    http://ev-power.com.au/webstore/inde...ry-module.html
    Last edited by Eevo; 12th December 2014 at 12:43 AM. Reason: forgot a link

  2. #2
    JDNSW's Avatar
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    The principal advantage of a Lithium battery over lead acid is the weight. As a primary battery in a four wheel drive I have problems with seeing the advantage. As a second battery, yes, but cost and their apparent relative sensitivity to neglect would seem to indicate caution.

    John
    John

    JDNSW
    1986 110 County 3.9 diesel
    1970 2a 109 2.25 petrol

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    Lithium based batteries need a charge regime which is enforced by the charge mechanism, unlike lead acid which are pretty tolerant of any incoming charge current regardless of state of charge. I'm sure it's only a matter of time until they work out a mechanism that allows that charge regime from an alternator, but I wouldn't be retrofitting lithium batteries to a vehicle not equipped for them.

    Those batteries posted look to be made for use with a separate BMS; charged from solar etc.

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    Very interesting topic.
    I purchased one of these the other day mainly as a backup start battery but it has lots of other uses.
    38000mAh Auto CAR Jump Starter Power Bank Battery Charger Laptop Mobile Phone | eBay

    A mate has a smaller version which he can start his 80 series cruiser with (diesel).

    I haven't tested it yet but it is rated to start diesels.

    Paul.
    Paul.

    77 series3 (sold)
    95 300Tdi Ute (sold)
    2003 XTREME Td5

    I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JDNSW View Post
    The principal advantage of a Lithium battery over lead acid is the weight.
    i would say its primary advantage is that it puts out a constant voltage while being discharged.


    discharge performance:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dervish View Post
    Lithium based batteries need a charge regime which is enforced by the charge mechanism, unlike lead acid which are pretty tolerant of any incoming charge current regardless of state of charge. I'm sure it's only a matter of time until they work out a mechanism that allows that charge regime from an alternator, but I wouldn't be retrofitting lithium batteries to a vehicle not equipped for them.

    Those batteries posted look to be made for use with a separate BMS; charged from solar etc.
    their website says otherwise


    Fusion Lithium Batteries are also one of the only Lithium Batteries that can be charged using normal 12V car chargers/ lead-acid battery chargers / alternators.
    They are designed as a direct drop-in replacement for similar sized lead-acid batteries

    but i am conservative at this stage.

  7. #7
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    Yeah no.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dervish View Post
    Yeah no.
    so whats your objection?

    your not confusing lithium ion with lithium iron are you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eevo View Post
    i would say its primary advantage is that it puts out a constant voltage while being discharged.
    Hi Eevo and I am not sure what advantage this offers, and I mean this as a question.

    It is bandied about on a regular basis but again, while a lead acid battery will lower it's voltage as it discharges to a lower state, in what sort of situation is this a problem or disadvantage.

    From all the research I have done over the 4 years I have been working with lithium batteries, the weight difference is the primary advantage in the RV field.

    But I have found there are to many other special requirements and limitations when trying to use lithium batteries in RV situations.

    I still find Optima Yellowtop batteries are better value and in many cases, because they tolerate unlimited charging currents and extremely high discharge currents, such as those that occur during winch operations, the Yellowtop is a far better choice, "AT THIS TIME".

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    Quote Originally Posted by drivesafe View Post
    Hi Eevo and I am not sure what advantage this offers, and I mean this as a question.

    It is bandied about on a regular basis but again, while a lead acid battery will lower it's voltage as it discharges to a lower state, in what sort of situation is this a problem or disadvantage.

    From all the research I have done over the 4 years I have been working with lithium batteries, the weight difference is the primary advantage in the RV field.

    But I have found there are to many other special requirements and limitations when trying to use lithium batteries in RV situations.

    I still find Optima Yellowtop batteries are better value and in many cases, because they tolerate unlimited charging currents and extremely high discharge currents, such as those that occur during winch operations, the Yellowtop is a far better choice, "AT THIS TIME".
    you have asked a good question. and i dont know how to answer it in a good way.
    i can think of 1 disadvantage, you dont really know the SOC of LiFePO4 batteries, where its easy on a lead acid battery.


    for an RV which has multiple batteries, i can see the weight advantage.
    for a single battery, losing 10kg takes the 4wd from 3000kg to 2990kg doesnt mean much.


    nothing wrong with yellowtops.

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