Thread: LT85 Santana 5 speed & LT230

Originally Posted by Rangier Rover

[snip]
When it all goes back together I'll run a synthetic 75/90 oil with 1 ltr of Lucas gear oil stabilizer.
[snip]

Noooooooooooo.

Don't bugger up a good oil with treacle.

Tim Slako, the Redline Importer was telling me some years back that one of the big Rover Specialists in WA was using their Heavyweight Shockproof oil with excellent results in the LT230, it basically 'cured' all the oiling problems.
Tim was suggesting the lightweight or mid weight would be better, but they were having such good results they stuck with the Heavy.

IIRC Shockproof is overbased with calcium.

I've just used whatever over the years, initially Neo 75W-90HD (one of the worlds best gear oils) as I had it on the shelf, it's ester based which acts as a detergent and wanted to really flush the t/case as the old fluid was black and stunk when i bought the Defender (mis-matched tyre sizes front and rear, half worn XZL's were 1" shorter than near new 235/85 Bridgey MT's)
Then Castrol 80W-90, Multitrax/80W-90 mix, Fuchs 80W-90, 90LSX..... (it had a pretty bad oil leak )
Then SAF-XA and Syntrax brew (leftovers from Patrol oil changes)

When I dropped the t/case a few years back doing a clutch change there was absolutely no wear on the input shaft, it was immaculate, but even when on the farm it had little low range work, we flogged Patrols for that. (hey, the Defender is mine, the Patrols belonged to the farm although we still have one )
But it had spent 76,000km with the NT BFC crawling around between Tennant Ck and the Alice with 1000l water tank and pumps on the back spotting and fighting fires, it had copped a flogging. (and got a little too close to the fires at time, judging by a fair bit of melted wiring underneath )

Tony, does yours have the cross drilled input gear ?
From what I've seen it works.

Originally Posted by Rangier Rover

In the long term, I want to get a six speed truck box matted to the LT230. I don't have the time or energy to do this conversion ATM.

I still think this is doable reasonably easily.
I have the 5 speed and Bush65 has the 6 speed version which is the same case but an extension housing.
Bush65 went for an Atlas case and thinks it's too tight to fit the LT230, but I still think it's possible with only a little extra effort.

The headache is the gear linkage. I still haven't done anything on that, but the linkage will be essentially the same for 5 and 6 speed boxes.

Originally Posted by rick130

Noooooooooooo.

Don't bugger up a good oil with treacle.

Tim Slako, the Redline Importer was telling me some years back that one of the big Rover Specialists in WA was using their Heavyweight Shockproof oil with excellent results in the LT230, it basically 'cured' all the oiling problems.
Tim was suggesting the lightweight or mid weight would be better, but they were having such good results they stuck with the Heavy.

IIRC Shockproof is overbased with calcium.

I've just used whatever over the years, initially Neo 75W-90HD (one of the worlds best gear oils) as I had it on the shelf, it's ester based which acts as a detergent and wanted to really flush the t/case as the old fluid was black and stunk when i bought the Defender (mis-matched tyre sizes front and rear, half worn XZL's were 1" shorter than near new 235/85 Bridgey MT's)
Then Castrol 80W-90, Multitrax/80W-90 mix, Fuchs 80W-90, 90LSX..... (it had a pretty bad oil leak )
Then SAF-XA and Syntrax brew (leftovers from Patrol oil changes)

When I dropped the t/case a few years back doing a clutch change there was absolutely no wear on the input shaft, it was immaculate, but even when on the farm it had little low range work, we flogged Patrols for that. (hey, the Defender is mine, the Patrols belonged to the farm although we still have one )
But it had spent 76,000km with the NT BFC crawling around between Tennant Ck and the Alice with 1000l water tank and pumps on the back spotting and fighting fires, it had copped a flogging. (and got a little too close to the fires at time, judging by a fair bit of melted wiring underneath )

So may opinions out there with oils
Trouble here is, This thing cops a flogging to save the cruisers

The oil I dropped out looked a bit horrid. Was a bit coloured and had that burnt smell about it.

I'm in two minds about sticking the Lucas crap in it, was a transmission builder's idea anyway.

Tony, does yours have the cross drilled input gear ?
From what I've seen it works.

Yes, And had a new MS fitted on its last rebuild.

Some thoughts on gear oils for an LT85......

Was the original spec a 15/20W-40/50 engine oil ?

If so, even though Syntrans works nicely and would give better protection than an engine oil I'd reckon a better fluid would be a 75W-90 manual trans fluid that was GL5 (or better still the superseded GL-6) spec.

Having the extra EP additives may give a longer life with the shock loading of the firing impulses from the Isuzu.


Torco RTF Gl-4/5/6 (excellent fluid, I've used it in the R380 and is the specified gear fluid for Richmond Gear gearboxes used in NASCAR. The gears crashed terribly for two days as the new friction modifiers embedded themselves into the synchro's, then it was all good. Very smooth shifting thereafter)

Motul Gear 300. GL-4/5 Actually thinner at 0*C than Syntans even though it's a 75W-90.
Very smooth shifting fluid in an R380. Current fill in mine. Be prepared for sticker shock

Neo 75W-90HD. GL4/5 Haven't really used this gear oil for over ten years. it, and the Motul Gear 300 used to be the fluid of choice in WRX's.
Neo revolutionised gear fluids in the late eighties, early nineties with their 75-90RHD gear oil in F1/Champ Cars/F3000.
CWP's went from replace every meeting to be able to do entire seasons, it was that good. (Neo mainly used lead and tin napthanate as their EP additives. Toxic, expensive and very, very expensive.) I used lots of their oils when racing (sponsored after dyno testing on my coin) very exxy and very good.

Amsoil Severe Gear 75W-90. GL-5
Really a diff fluid but meets MT-1 and copper corrosion 1b. Have very good reports as a diff fluid. Amsoil recommend their MTG 75W-90 as a manual gearbox fluid but it is only GL4 rated (and have very good reports on this too)

Castrol Syntrax 75W-90. GL-4/5 excellent manual gear/transaxle/diff fluid. Good synchro characteristics. We've been using this for years in the Patrol. As good/better shift characteristics than Redline MT90 (whcih only meest GL4 spec, which is usually all that is needed in a gear box)

Originally Posted by Dougal

I still think this is doable reasonably easily.
I have the 5 speed and Bush65 has the 6 speed version which is the same case but an extension housing.
Bush65 went for an Atlas case and thinks it's too tight to fit the LT230, but I still think it's possible with only a little extra effort.

The headache is the gear linkage. I still haven't done anything on that, but the linkage will be essentially the same for 5 and 6 speed boxes.

Would be good if one of us comes up with a standardised kit that could be reproduced.

Be nothing wrong with the Atlas, they're a good bit of gear. I just want to stay with the LT230 as will soon have a PTO fitted.

I've had a look at your threads/post and the gear linkage looks a small night mare Think if I ever do this, I would do away with the center seat comforts and make a nice big square transmission tunnel to accommodate the cable shifter.

The cost in casting/machining the adapter components on a one off would be bad

Some more thoughts on gear oils.

The heavier a fluid the longer it takes to get up onto the bits that aren't in the splash, yet gears generally wear less with heavier fluids.

Some gear oils have the ability to 'climb' when cold, which can really reduce wear for the first couple of km of operation.

Ester based synthetics (Motul, Neo, Redline) are polar, so they have an affinity for metal or 'stick' to it, not all of it draining back to the sump.
This may help when vehicles are left to sit for weeks between uses. It means that nothing ever gets 'dry', a surface is always wetted with lubricant.

Originally Posted by rick130

Some thoughts on gear oils for an LT85......

Was the original spec a 15/20W-40/50 engine oil ?

If so, even though Syntrans works nicely and would give better protection than an engine oil I'd reckon a better fluid would be a 75W-90 manual trans fluid that was GL5 (or better still the superseded GL-6) spec.

Having the extra EP additives may give a longer life with the shock loading of the firing impulses from the Isuzu.


Torco RTF Gl-4/5/6 (excellent fluid, I've used it in the R380 and is the specified gear fluid for Richmond Gear gearboxes used in NASCAR. The gears crashed terribly for two days as the new friction modifiers embedded themselves into the synchro's, then it was all good. Very smooth shifting thereafter)

Motul Gear 300. GL-4/5 Actually thinner at 0*C than Syntans even though it's a 75W-90.
Very smooth shifting fluid in an R380. Current fill in mine. Be prepared for sticker shock

Neo 75W-90HD. GL4/5 Haven't really used this gear oil for over ten years. it, and the Motul Gear 300 used to be the fluid of choice in WRX's.
Neo revolutionised gear fluids in the late eighties, early nineties with their 75-90RHD gear oil in F1/Champ Cars/F3000.
CWP's went from replace every meeting to be able to do entire seasons, it was that good. (Neo mainly used lead and tin napthanate as their EP additives. Toxic, expensive and very, very expensive.) I used lots of their oils when racing (sponsored after dyno testing on my coin) very exxy and very good.

Amsoil Severe Gear 75W-90. GL-5
Really a diff fluid but meets MT-1 and copper corrosion 1b. Have very good reports as a diff fluid. Amsoil recommend their MTG 75W-90 as a manual gearbox fluid but it is only GL4 rated (and have very good reports on this too)

Castrol Syntrax 75W-90. GL-4/5 excellent manual gear/transaxle/diff fluid. Good synchro characteristics. We've been using this for years in the Patrol. As good/better shift characteristics than Redline MT90 (whcih only meest GL4 spec, which is usually all that is needed in a gear box)

Yes, around 20/50 was recommended for the LT85.

I have to be very careful what viscosity goes in the LT85 as has a fibre oil pump gear that is prone to shear if the oil is too heavy. Any one reading this.... DO NOT USE HEAVY GEAR OIL in the LT 85 or LT 95 either.

I'll look into better oils for the LT85 that are safe in -6 deg including all you have mentioned.

Tony

Been a bit flat out here, although have managed to get the LT230 back together with two extra holes drilled and tapped for the remote oil pump feed and return.