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Thread: 1953 Series 1 86' Help

  1. #1
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    1953 Series 1 86' Help

    Hi there.
    I have just bought a 1955 Series 1 and have started doing a bit of work on it and now have a few queries that I hope people can help me with.


    Clutch- The clutch plate has welded itself to the flywheel. I have removed the floor and seat box and it looks like it should be possible to slide the gearbox back and get enough access to replace it without having to drop the gearbox out, am I correct? Ay tips for this procedure?


    Brakes- Pedal goes flat to floor with no pressure, there is fluid in the system and the brakes are all off as can move the vehicle around easily enough. Imagine this is most likely something to do with the Master Cylinder so going to replace that first, what else could it be?


    Welding- Couple of parts of chassis need new metal, any recommendations on where to take it in Sydney? Definetly needs a replacement Gearbox cross member.


    Experts- Is there anyone who is really clued up on Series 1 who would be willing to come and have a look at it and just give some general advice for a fee? Located near Bondi Junction.


    Thanks in advance, any advice greatly appreciated as this is a large learning curve for me.


    Cheers,
    Ed

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    Hi Ed

    For series 1's probably the most experienced workshop would be Brian Danielson at land Vehicle Spares, Econo Place Silverdale (yes it is a bit of a hike from anywhere in Sydney)

    Yes you can move the box back inside the chassis, but you have to remove the seat box first and you still don't get a lot of room unless you tilt the box down behind the gearbox support crossmenber.

    Back in the day, lots of LROC Sydney people made the gearbox support removable, a bit like the Army SIII, that way you can drop the box down and remove if from under the car. The other way was to dismount the transfer from the gearbox and take it out in two halfs.

    It's always worthwhile re-doing the whole brake system with new. On the 86" the wheel cylinders are the same as the 88" wheelbase cylinders right up to SIII so are readily available. The master cylinder is an orphan so if your master cylinder has an intact casting (no broken holes on the mounting flange) its worthwhile getting it re-sleeved in stainless and it will out last you. As a last resort you can modify the CB master cylinder from the S2 and S2a 88" to fit the 86" (original 3 bolts, S2 2 bolts).

    Diana

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    Hi Diana,

    Thank you for the info about Land Vehicle Spares, I hadn't come across them in my searches.

    I am going to tackle the gearbox this weekend hopefully and hopefully can get it back far enough to get the clutch plate out all going well. Certainly sounds like a sensible option to bolt the gearbox cross member on rather than welding it. When I push the yellow lever to engage 4 wheel drive how much movement should there be in the lever that raises and lowers in the transfer box? It only seems to move an inch or so and don't know if something is not working, whats the easiest way to test if the 4wd is engaging?

    Stainless sleeving the master cylinder seems like the way to go, will be going down that route.

    Thanks for your advice, its all much appreciated.

    Cheers,
    Ed

  4. #4
    JDNSW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddytzeb View Post
    Hi Diana,

    Thank you for the info about Land Vehicle Spares, I hadn't come across them in my searches.

    I am going to tackle the gearbox this weekend hopefully and hopefully can get it back far enough to get the clutch plate out all going well. Certainly sounds like a sensible option to bolt the gearbox cross member on rather than welding it. When I push the yellow lever to engage 4 wheel drive how much movement should there be in the lever that raises and lowers in the transfer box? It only seems to move an inch or so and don't know if something is not working, whats the easiest way to test if the 4wd is engaging?

    Stainless sleeving the master cylinder seems like the way to go, will be going down that route.

    Thanks for your advice, its all much appreciated.

    Cheers,
    Ed
    The red lever does not normally move at all when four wheel drive is selected with the yellow knob, although it may jump a little. The selector shaft it is connected to should be held in place by a spring loaded ball in a notch in the selector shaft. If it moves an inch, it suggests that it is not being positively held in place, or perhaps more likely, the lever is missing the anti-rattle spring on the ball, and just jumped around in the free play as the spring on the four wheel drive selector was released.

    John
    John

    JDNSW
    1986 110 County 3.9 diesel
    1970 2a 109 2.25 petrol

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    Quote Originally Posted by JDNSW View Post
    The red lever does not normally move at all when four wheel drive is selected with the yellow knob, although it may jump a little. The selector shaft it is connected to should be held in place by a spring loaded ball in a notch in the selector shaft. If it moves an inch, it suggests that it is not being positively held in place, or perhaps more likely, the lever is missing the anti-rattle spring on the ball, and just jumped around in the free play as the spring on the four wheel drive selector was released.

    John


    Hi John, thanks for your reply. Apologies I don't think I described the issue very well. When I push the yellow lever down to engage 4 wheel drive the mechanism raises a rod out of the top of the transfer box and the movement of that lever is about an inch, is that the expected amount of travel or should there be more? Are there any tests I can do to see if the 4wd is engaging?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddytzeb View Post
    Hi Diana,

    <snip> Certainly sounds like a sensible option to bolt the gearbox cross member on rather than welding it. When I push the yellow lever to engage 4 wheel drive how much movement should there be in the lever that raises and lowers in the transfer box? It only seems to move an inch or so and don't know if something is not working, whats the easiest way to test if the 4wd is engaging?

    <snip>
    Cheers,
    Ed
    Hi Ed

    You still have to weld on the brackets. A common method was to weld on a couple of angle iron brackets to the underside of the chassis so that they had a flange on either side of the cross member. On the cross member both sides you then weld in a couple of crush tubes (4 in total) into the box of the cross member and drill matching holes in the angle iron flanges to align with the crush tubes. The box is then supported on 2 long bolts on each side of the chassis. The bolts should probably be at least 5/16".

    The yellow button is only a release mechanism and only needs to drop about 2", the 4WD locking inside the transfer box front output is done by a spring on a dog clutch.

    To disengage 4WD you have to pull the red lever back until you engage low range and the yellow button springs back up (assuming that you have the spring under the yellow knob - if not there you need to buy one.) then push the red lever back to high range. It is always in 4WD in low range.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies View Post
    Hi Ed

    You still have to weld on the brackets. A common method was to weld on a couple of angle iron brackets to the underside of the chassis so that they had a flange on either side of the cross member. On the cross member both sides you then weld in a couple of crush tubes (4 in total) into the box of the cross member and drill matching holes in the angle iron flanges to align with the crush tubes. The box is then supported on 2 long bolts on each side of the chassis. The bolts should probably be at least 5/16".

    The yellow button is only a release mechanism and only needs to drop about 2", the 4WD locking inside the transfer box front output is done by a spring on a dog clutch.

    To disengage 4WD you have to pull the red lever back until you engage low range and the yellow button springs back up (assuming that you have the spring under the yellow knob - if not there you need to buy one.) then push the red lever back to high range. It is always in 4WD in low range.


    Thanks for the advice on the brackets, this is most useful and something that possibly Land Vehicle Spares can do for me.


    Regarding the transfer box it sounds as though the movement in the mechanism is enough. It has the spring and I will check it pops back up when engaging low gear. Again thanks for your advice.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddytzeb View Post
    Thanks for the advice on the brackets, this is most useful and something that possibly Land Vehicle Spares can do for me.


    Regarding the transfer box it sounds as though the movement in the mechanism is enough. It has the spring and I will check it pops back up when engaging low gear. Again thanks for your advice.
    Hi All
    Progressing well with removal of the gearbox, both prop shafts are off, seat box off, gearbox mounts off, earth wire removed. I am stuck on a couple of things and hope you can offer advice.

    1. Clutch pedal shaft- how is this removed? There is a vertical pin through the shaft adjacent to where the shaft enters the gearbox, I removed split pin and have given it a few hits with the hammer but it hasn't budged! Is the correct pin to be removing? Does it have something on the bottom holding it in place? I guess that the pin removes and when removing gearbox it slides off. Or am I way off the mark.

    2. Removing handbrake lever mechanism. Looks easiest to
    undo the 2 bolts through the chassis that hold the unit in place, do you know what size the nuts/bolts are? They seem to be something different to the imperial/metric tools I have.

    Hope to get these 2 things done tomorrow and can then remove the bell housing bolts and starter motor and withdraw the unit to get at the clutch.

    Thanks,
    Ed

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddytzeb View Post
    1. Clutch pedal shaft- how is this removed? There is a vertical pin through the shaft adjacent to where the shaft enters the gearbox,
    There are two pins through the cross shaft, one is horizontal through what would be called a flexible joint and both these pins can wear quite a shoulder on them even though they are hardened steel.
    To remove them, a heavy lump of steel is needed underneath to support the sleeve part of the joint whilst letting the pin be driven past using a heavy hammer and a drift on the opposite side.

    2. Removing handbrake lever mechanism. Looks easiest to
    undo the 2 bolts through the chassis that hold the unit in place, do you know what size the nuts/bolts are? They seem to be something different to the imperial/metric tools I have.
    There is a threaded pin through the joint closest to the hand brake baking plate, that threaded pin also has a split pin through it in the opposite end to it's threaded head.

    Most threads of the Series One Land Rovers have British Standard Fine ( B.S.F. ) with a few threads in the screws are British Association ( BA ) .

    .
    Last edited by wrinklearthur; 26th April 2015 at 07:09 AM. Reason: mumbo corrected

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddytzeb View Post
    Hi All
    ........They seem to be something different to the imperial/metric tools I have.

    ....
    Thanks,
    Ed
    Most bolt head and nut sizes on Series 1 Landrovers are BSW/BSF sizes. Spanners for these are not simple fractions of inches, and are labelled with the size of the bolt. Strictly they should have two sizes labelled, one for BSW and one for BSF, with all the ones on the Series 1 being BSF size even if the thread is BSW.

    These spanners, usually referred to as "Whitworth", are available new (but probably need to be ordered in) from any decent tool shop, but are best obtained, usually good quality for peanuts, from Op Shops, garage sales and markets. Just look for spanners with the size shown as a fraction that is obviously the bolt size not the nut size. Some (but not often) will have a W, BSW, or BSW/BSF as well.

    Some of the smaller screws and nuts, especially around lights and other electrical equipment, use BA, identified by number, not with the bigger the number, the smaller the size. Common sizes in Landrovers are 2BA and 4BA. Strictly, these have their own spanners, but often have BSW sizes. These spanners are rare.

    It is likely that some bolts and nuts will have been replaced over the car's life with UNF or metric ones, so be aware. With practice, you can recognise the threads on sight!

    *BSW = British Standard Whitworth, the first standard thread anywhere, mid 19th century. Nut sizes based on standard rolled sections of the time. Changed generally to BSF nut and bolt head sizes during WW2.

    *BSF = British Standard Fine, same as BSW but thread pitch and nut size from next smaller standard size.

    *BA = British Association, intended for instruments etc, a metric thread introduced in the late 19th century, it has a smaller peak angle of the thread form than other common threads.

    John
    John

    JDNSW
    1986 110 County 3.9 diesel
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