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Thread: Dual battery solar charger query

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defender08 View Post
    ................................ I'm guessing it is lead-acid.
    And you are correct. ALL car batterys are lead acid batterys of one type or another.

    In this case the recommended Varta battery for a 2014 Defender is the Blue Dynamic E24. 12V, 70 Ah, 630 cca. This is a sealed lead acid battery or SLA. This is a type of 'flooded cell' lead acid battery ie. if you shake it you can hear the electrolyte sloshing around inside. There are no caps on the individual cells to access the electrolyte. This is the most common type of automotive battery. Sometimes calcium or silver is added to the mix and the batterys are referred to as calcium or silver batterys but they are still lead acid batterys. These batterys must be mounted right side up.

    Another type of lead acid battery is the Gell Cell where the electrolyte is not a liquid but in paste form, these were widely used as wheel chair batterys but are not so common now, in most applications they were replaced with absorbed glass matt or AGM batterys where the electrolyte is held in a fibreglass matt between the lead plates. The Optima battery is an example of this technology. As the electrolyte is not a liquid SLA's can be mounted on their side if need be.

    Mick, the OP's 'Sure Power battery separator' is a (battery) coupling solenoid with associated electronics to connect the batterys together. It is basically a smart on/off switch. When the engines running and the alternator voltage is 14+ Volts it couples the batterys, with the engine off the main battery voltage drops to say 13 Volts or less and the solenoid releases. It is not a smart charge sharing device like some more complex dual battery controllers.


    Deano

  2. #12
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    A local land rover mechanic suggested that if the Optima battery becomes deeply discharged, then a charging regime based on alternator will not restore it to full charge.
    Rather, it will need a charger with multi stage charging profiles specific to the chemistry of the battery under charge.

  3. #13
    Homestar's Avatar
    Homestar is offline Super Moderator & CA manager Gold Subscriber
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    Was the Mechanic trying to sell you said charger?
    If you need to contact me please email homestarrunnerau@gmail.com - thanks - Gav.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defender08 View Post
    A local land rover mechanic suggested that if the Optima battery becomes deeply discharged, then a charging regime based on alternator will not restore it to full charge.
    Rather, it will need a charger with multi stage charging profiles specific to the chemistry of the battery under charge.
    Hi Defender08, and first off he is a mechanic and he should stick to being a mechanic.

    Next, there is a lot of myth and magic about using a charger that can be set to charge batteries with different "chemistry"

    A lot of people, who either have no idea what they are talking about, or play up to unsuspecting potential customers, about having to use a device that can charge different battery "chemistry"

    There is no secret charging voltage or the need for some upside down secret handshake to be able to charge a given battery type.

    This is just sales hype B/S.

    The different battery type settings on battery charges, solar regulators and and DC/DC devices do nothing more than set the maximum charging voltage the device will operate at.

    If you select the type of battery setting for old type USA Gel batteries, the charger will operate at no more than 14.1v.

    Older Standby type AGMs at 14.4v

    Most new type Standby AGMs at 14.7v

    Wet Cell batteries ( including all Calcium/Calcium batteries ) can be charged at over 15v for short BOOST periods and then at a constant charge of 14.7v

    Optima batteries can be charged the same as a Wet Cell.

    All Land Rover AGM cranking batteries are charged at 14.7v.

    This is the only difference between the different battery "chemistries" settings on a charger, no matter what type it is.

    To make this B/S worse, if you have an old type USA Gel in parallel with an Optima, you must set the charger to 14.1v, to avoid cooking the old type USA Gel.

    Unfortunately there are heaps of experts out there, like your mechanic, who will now tell you the Optima will never fully charge.

    This again, is nothing short of a truck load of B/S.

    The only difference between charging the Optima at 14.1v vs 14.7v, is that it will take a LITTLE longer for the Optima to reach a fully charged state.

    Don't get caught up with all the myths about the different battery "chemistry" settings.

    All they mean is that a battery that can safely tolerate a higher charge voltage, will charge slightly faster than a battery that has a lower maximum charge voltage level.

  5. #15
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    Judo is offline ChatterBox Silver Subscriber
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    Hi Tim, in all these cases is the fully charged voltage of the batteries still 12.7?
    - Justin

    '95 Disco 300TDI - sold
    '86 County 110 Isuzu
    2006 Range Rover Vogue td6

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judo View Post
    Hi Tim, in all these cases is the fully charged voltage of the batteries still 12.7?
    YES.

    But this would be after the vehicle's motor has been off for a few hours.

    When you first remove a charging device from a battery, whether it be solar, battery charger or your alternator, there will be a SURFACE CHARGE or SURFACE VOLTAGE.

    This Surface Voltage can give high readings of well over 13v for a fully charge battery, which is not a problem. But it could give you a reading of 12.7v on a battery that is no where near fully charged.

    So again, as long as the voltage measurement is taken a few hours after charging has ceased, then a fully charged battery should read from 12.5v ( over 90% ) to 12.75v

  7. #17
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    Some good information from Optima's website



    VERY FEW BATTERIES DIE A NATURAL DEATH, MOST ARE KILLED

    Tips to extend battery life - Never leave it flat

    For best battery life, it is advisable to fully charge your battery prior to installation, as it can take between 10 and 50 cycles to reach full capacity (depending on battery type).

    All batteries are damaged if left flat, so always remember to fully recharge your battery as soon as possible after use. Never leave it flat. Make sure your battery is maintained in a state of full charge between use.

    Your battery must kept as clean as possible. Your terminals should be kept clean and tight. If your battery is flooded technology, then ensure it is watered regularly, so that the plates are always covered.

    All batteries gas when in service. With valve regulated AGM and Gel batteries this gassing in normal service is recombined inside the battery whereas with flooded batteries this gas is vented externally. Even with the valve regulated technology, in cases of severe and protracted overcharge the valves may release excess gassing to ensure worse case scenarios do not occur. so please remember do not fit batteries into fully sealed air tight containers.

    Charging batteries to ensure they are returned to a full state of charge and maintained that way is not rocket science. All it requires is a correctly sized battery charger set to the charge voltages recommended for the batteries you have. So please know or ask what voltage the particular battery requires to recharge correctly, and then make sure the charger has the capacity to fully charge your battery in 8 - 12 hours. A simple rule is to ensure the charger has a current output at least 10% of the C 20 A/H rating and remember always use a regulated and automatic multi-stage charger.


    Deano
    Last edited by DeanoH; 2nd December 2015 at 09:41 AM. Reason: fix up symbols

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeanoH View Post
    Some good information from Optima's website



    VERY FEW BATTERIES DIE A NATURAL DEATH, MOST ARE KILLED

    Tips to extend battery life - Never leave it flat

    For best battery life, it is advisable to fully charge your battery prior to installation, as it can take between 10 and 50 cycles to reach full capacity (depending on battery type).

    All batteries are damaged if left flat, so always remember to fully recharge your battery as soon as possible after use. Never leave it flat. Make sure your battery is maintained in a state of full charge between use.

    Your battery must kept as clean as possible. Your terminals should be kept clean and tight. If your battery is flooded technology, then ensure it is watered regularly, so that the plates are always covered.

    All batteries gas when in service. With valve regulated AGM and Gel batteries this gassing in normal service is recombined inside the battery whereas with flooded batteries this gas is vented externally. Even with the valve regulated technology, in cases of severe and protracted overcharge the valves may release excess gassing to ensure worse case scenarios do not occur. so please remember do not fit batteries into fully sealed air tight containers.

    Charging batteries to ensure they are returned to a full state of charge and maintained that way is not rocket science. All it requires is a correctly sized battery charger set to the charge voltages recommended for the batteries you have. So please know or ask what voltage the particular battery requires to recharge correctly, and then make sure the charger has the capacity to fully charge your battery in 8 - 12 hours. A simple rule is to ensure the charger has a current output at least 10% of the C 20 A/H rating and remember always use a regulated and automatic multi-stage charger.


    Deano
    Hi Dean, and some good info but just be careful of the last paragraph. This info relates to batteries being used in a 24 hour cycle, like batteries in an electric forklift or being used in golf carts.

    That time duration is not relevant when charging while driving, where you need to get the batteries charged as quick as possible.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defender08 View Post
    A local land rover mechanic suggested that if the Optima battery becomes deeply discharged, then a charging regime based on alternator will not restore it to full charge.
    Rather, it will need a charger with multi stage charging profiles specific to the chemistry of the battery under charge.
    Whilst the information given to the OP by his mechanic is incorrect it is very easy to understand why especially when a reputable battery manafacturer such as Optima continues to publish rubbish like this to sell the product.


    Optima Yellow Top Batteries - optima batteries



    As Optima Batteries are all AGM batteries they do require specialized charging conditions. AGM batteries require 14.4v to charge correctly and a standard car alternator will only output 13.6v. This is where the Sterling Alternator Regulator comes in.........................

    Whilst this information may have been relevant 30 years ago it is not applicable to 'modern' vehicles and IMO extremely misleading if not deceptive to use this argument in selling the product.

    The last vehicle I owned that had a 13.6 volt (Lucas) alternator was my 1985 RRC so hardly a valid argument in todays environment.


    Deano

  10. #20
    DiscoMick Guest
    Yeah, my Defender is keeping the vehicle's electrical system at 13.9-14.0 volts according to the voltmeter I have plugged in, so it should have no trouble getting a battery up to the real full charge of 12.7 volts, you would think.
    I thought the real benefit of a multi-stage charger was not if it would get a battery fully charged, but if it would then stop and go into float mode while some charge was used and then test and resume charging.

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