TorqueFlite transmissions 3 and 4 speed

Lotz-A-Landies · #1 (**permalink**) 17th July 2008, 12:55 AM

Hi People

Has anyone ever tried to replace a Torqueflite A727 coupled to the LT230 (ie the 1985 RRC) with a later 4 speed Torqueflite such as the A518 (46RH/46RE) or A618 (47RH/47RE)?

Are the 518/618s in the same casing as the 727 and where is the overdrive inside the box or external?

Any information would be great.

Diana

Lotz-A-Landies · #2 (**permalink**) 17th July 2008, 09:44 AM

Hmm

I guess the ZF must be the best auto transmission ever!

Diana

Brian Hjelm · #3 (**permalink**) 17th July 2008, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

Hmm

I guess the ZF must be the best auto transmission ever!

Diana

If you have deep pockets come overhaul time a ZF might make the semi-finals. My picks for best hard usage auto trans. are the GM HT700 series and Torqueflites.

For hard usage and readily available at reasonable price manual transmission it was always hard to go past the Muncie. Heavy shifting but lived forever behind hard used big engines, was available in iron or aluminium case, with a selection of ratio sets.

hodgo · #4 (**permalink**) 17th July 2008, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Hjelm

If you have deep pockets come overhaul time a ZF might make the semi-finals. My picks for best hard usage auto trans. are the GM HT700 series and Torqueflites.

For hard usage and readily available at reasonable price manual transmission it was always hard to go past the Muncie. Heavy shifting but lived forever behind hard used big engines, was available in iron or aluminium case, with a selection of ratio sets.

__________________________________________________ _____________

I have to agree with you Brian, GM boxes were used by Rolls Royce and I think they still are as their big boxes are able to handle big HP .
As for the Torqueflites I have seen them used and savagley abused in motor racing and they always came back for more punishment.

Hodgo

isuzurover · #5 (**permalink**) 17th July 2008, 06:13 PM

Diana - I have NFI, however discokid runs a TF727 in his race truck, so may know (he is probably out looking for his stolen trailer...

).

Also, the IH Scout used a TF727, so most of the scout guys know a lot about them (e.g. try pirate4x4.com).

There have also been some discussions on outerlimits about the best auto options to go in a (rover)V8/auto/LT230 drivetrain.

Lotz-A-Landies · #6 (**permalink**) 17th July 2008, 07:58 PM

Hodgo and IsuzuRover

I know that the A727 are very popular with the drag racing fraternity and they handle big horespower US V8's hence my question. It seems that Chrysler hit upon a good design when they were first introduced in the late 1950's or 1960's and apparently they are still in production. I also understand that the ZF 4 speed is both expensive to repair and seemingly close to its limit behind a 5 litre V8.

With Taz's post elsewhere of a Perentie 6X6 S2B hybrid with GMC 6+ litre diesel and Tubo700 automatic I thought about using my spare LT230/A727 combination (ala my spare 1985 RRc which is going manual) for my 2B project. In the US Dodge Rams have the 6BT 5.9 litre Cummins coupled to (4speed) A518s and A618s so was wondering about using one of those coupled to the LT230 in place of the A727.

Diana

isuzurover · #7 (**permalink**) 18th July 2008, 12:59 PM

Have you looked on pirate yet??? A very quick search turned up heaps of info, e.g.:

Quote:

If he has the 727 trans that makes it a early 91 nonintercooled truck. It should have a 3:07 geared axle under the back. A OD trans would make a good highway package with those gears. At 60 MPH with 3:07's and a OD your looking at 1650 RPM.

I would look for a 47Rh trans. There are more of them out in the used market and it gives him a lockup converter also. The OD trans from 91.5 to 93 were nonlockup A518/46RH's.

In the 47Rh's a trans from a V10 or a cummins rig will work. You would need to use eather toggle switchs to turn on OD and lockup or rig some pressure switchs. The 91 doesn't have a computer to control OD.

If you would go with the 47RH you would need the adapter bell housing and the starter from a 94. The adapter is deeper on a lockup converter. The frame would need a small notch in the starter area. The starter sets at a different angle on the 94's and the frame is wider on a 94.

Going from a 727 to a A518/46rh is a straight bolt in. You would still need to figure out how you wanted to turn the OD on.

He could go with the gear venders as mentioned. But the gear vender setup would cost more than getting another auto.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...light=a518+727

Quote:

Pretty simple, well not really but the tail housing of the 727 actually the two cases look identical forward of the tailhousing which i realize is where the OD unit is. so would it be possible to get a A518 or A618 and unbolt the tail housing and bolt it onto a AMC pattern 727. Now i imagine some machine work would be involved and i realize its not presto bolt it on and go now you have an Overdrive. i found a bunch of articles talking about dodge 727's being upgraded ... replaced with/ to the A518 or interchanging some parts and because it in its early years was fully hydraulic so it seems like a option??? so it seems the mechanics of operation might be there but whats it going to take machine work wise?

i imagine you get the gist, i have a 727 in front of a healthy built 401 in a tow rig, and im starting to think seriously about a 700R4 conversion on the next rebuilt for the tranny as she has 140k miles on her and the other day i saw a A618 on a shop floor next to a 727 and with a tape measure all exterior dimensions and bolt holes were the same for bolting up the tail housing. but the issue i imagine would be in changing out vavle bodies and if there is any machine work for oil passages internanly or if is even possible. Also didnt the A618 have a lower first gear than the 727? maybe the adapter and built 700r4 would be the way to go but i figured if the early cummins was in front of the auto OD in 91-93 and its being built to take the poer these days maybe it might have a little merit. but then again if nothing lines up internally its a mute point

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...light=a518+727

Quote:

Has anybody told you yet that the 518/46rh is essentially a 727 with an overdrive stuck on the back?

Even some Land Rover specific stuff:

Quote:

Thanks for all the info. BTW I was interested to see how the spud shaft between the A518 and the LT230 was holding up (it is a welded custom piece) and it looks great, no wear, no twisted splines, despite my beating . I think that with an auto the 10 spline input for the LT230 has a much better chance of living.

loanrangie · #8 (**permalink**) 18th July 2008, 05:45 PM

Since you would have to import the A518 it would work out cheaper to fit a ZF.

slug_burner · #9 (**permalink**) 20th July 2008, 11:58 AM

Look here FAQ about gearbox swaps on range rover/land rover

discokid · #10 (**permalink**) 20th July 2008, 05:22 PM

I briefly considered this box when I built my 110

I was dismissed for a number reasons

1) I didnt need an overdrive
2) the later models are electronic shift so no good for racing
3) some complications with the overdrive being engaged and activated which Isuzu Rovers post talks about
4) rare as hens teeth
5) cost to buy
6) cost to modify and parts scarce
7) The rover 727 runs on an angle and wasnt sure the 4 speed coudl do it

A 727 has no end of drums, bands, valve bodies etc that can be used in high HP applications and I still had problems in the early days nothing is bullet proof or a stright bolt inwhen conversions are concerned

However Im looking at doing a tow car maybe a defender 130 with a 427 ls7 and this box is being considered. Very early days yet and with the trailer not turning up may forget about it until much later let me know how you go if you end up using one

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