Thread: Journal bearing failure modes (bloody 300Tdi's...)

Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

Id be checking the journal for out of round.....

if its loaded with fractures running across the face then its usually an elongated journal (OR the end cap bolts have lost tension)

That's an engine out/strip down job.........

Originally Posted by rick130

That's an engine out/strip down job.........

I have seen this problem (your bearing shells) twice before and it was the bore of the big end of the con rod was not round, the shell was not seating properly, crush clearances should be checked before installation, in the second case the con rod was not straight, which stretched one cap bolt which allowed the bearing shell to move about (not rotate) which caused similar damage, neither of these can be fully checked out with the rod still in the engine, as you know, Regards Frank.

Originally Posted by Gazz

My Disco is a 97 SE7 300TDI with 278000Kms and has had all its services including the gearbox with no failures to date, regular maintenance is the key I recon.
Gazz

I agree with that 100%.My cooling system has been serviced every year since new and have never had a head,headgasket problem,done the timing belt on time,change the oil at 10k,grease it every second oil change etc etc and still has all it's original parts except the steering box and clutch and the engine has 413,878km's on it and it runs better now than it ever has.I also ran ATF in my R380 for 10 years and it doesn't crunch or carry-on either but that is supposed to be the wrong fluid too.Am I worried about the bearings?,nope,you will find all sorts of nasty's in any engine after a few K's and I'll give her a birthday at half a million and start over. Pat

I have one 300tdi at 186,000 miles, another at 292,000 miles and all in original condition. The early owners determine how long the engine will last. If they dont service them correctly you will then see people complain about brand X diesel engine being rubbish. Wear early in an engines life will decide how long it will last.

My old 200tdi engine is now over half a million miles, sold that two years ago when parts started to dry up.

I raise the water coolant tank for 300tdi's as high up as I can get it by placing it on the firewall and that works wonders for the head. I also change the engine oil and filter every 6,000 miles. Very important to keep a diesel engine running on clean oil.

When checking the crankshaft, even if its new, put a mic on it and check each journal at three different angles. Some will be out of round and you gotta grind em if you want longevity. I buy my engine parts from Turner Engineering in UK, they only sell top quality Landie parts and some wont be made by Landrover if they can find a higher quality part. I have yet to install a replacement crank in my own engines, but for others I insist they buy a new one from a reputable dealer who will replace it if its out of round.

A set of new bearings wont cost you much and it will take longer to remove and refit the engine than replacing the bearings.

Turners prices inc tax which you wont have to pay, less 17.5%. Its so cheap I would replace both. Same with crank seal.

Big end bearing set
RTC 2993 22.50

Main bearing set
STC 3395 25.00

BTW, another thread you mentioned some experimentation with an Iveco turbo. There is a place in Germany selling them refurb and new for pretty ok money. I am actively researching this idea too.

Cheers,

Emerald

Just wanted to say thanks Rick never heard of this before....after reading through your post and the ones in which you gave the links for I had a word with the garage that has my car at the moment and asked them to inspect them if they had the time, he said they would have the time....So lets see if he remembers

Originally Posted by rick130

Joel, there seems to be a lot of big end wear problems with 2/300Tdi's from 150-300,000km.
You remember Clarkie's thread from a couple of years back, you were on it too.
Fred Smith tipped him off, and I've seen a stack of people report the same problems with bearing wear since, but they've been straight out wear (copper backing showing through the lead/tin overlay)
I'm not sure what the overlay is on these ones of mine, I suspect either Glyco sputter bearings or aluminium, they are too shiny for lead/tin/copper in my experience.
They have a 'G' in a square and 'Z3' in a square then FB on the back of the slippers, then the LR pt. # underneath.

I think I'll use ACL F780 bearings, I had good success with them in the past compared to Vandervell competition bearings, better wear and more concentric and consistent, unless someone warns me off overnight
.....and I'm going to be cheap and keep the mains. I popped off # 4 today and it looks OK, a little shiny at the bottom but OK. I really don't want to have to pull the engine, i need to get it back to work, I'm using the Patrol ATM and I'll get into big trouble if I use it past this weekend.

Wont be sputter bearings. These are marked with "SPUTTER" on the back of one of the shells and this is the one that is fitted to the rod. The cap has the tri-metal bearing fitted.
The hotspot or delamination on the edge of the bearing is the key to the problem. Most of the other damage by way of scoring is due to the delaminated metal.

Delamination is usually caused by two things, heat and/or overloading of the bearing.
Heat will have had an impact on yours, but its not the primary cause hence the lack of discolouration.

The delamination at the edge of the shell is a sign of edge loading. The main cause of this is either heavy load cycling or due to detonation issues such as incorrect timing and chugging around at low speed in too high a gear (Grandpa style..).

I wouldnt mind getting some good closeup pics of the shell backs and rod journals too.

Its not the worst i have seen but I would not be putting bearings in without a crank inspection and polish at the very least.

ACL bearing tend to be a little hard, best bet is a tri-metal for H/D application, Mahle Clevite or Glyco if you can find them.

Cheers

Andrew.

Hi Andrew and thanks.

I worked out they wouldn't be sputter bearings after that initial post. I'm guessing 'standard' Glyco's.
It looks like the bottom shell had been damaged before installation, there are a few distinct, large flats on the back of the shell and corresponding lack of contact on the cap. ie. it's still shiny and untouched.
I'm guessing it's either been dropped before, or oil contaminated on fitting.
I'll get some pics on the weekend.
It hasn't gone back together yet, work and life have gotten in the way, but hopefully this weekend, if there aren't any call outs.

Already have the ACL bearings in the F780 tri-metal material, but I'll keep the other recommendations in mind for the future.

Thanks to Rick after a PM a while ago about concerns of oil temps and oil cooler not being adequate, I replaced my big end bearings, relief valve and the O ring on the oil pick up. My 300 Tdi had done 290,000km and although no where near as bad as the ones Rick posted, there was some wear, mainly the top shells as they get the abuse. Maybe should've looked at the mains too.