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Thread: International 1973 D-Series 1210 4x4 Van

  1. #11
    Lionelgee is offline YarnMaster Silver Subscriber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tote View Post
    Some F trucks in Australia ran the divorced transfer case up until about 1979, I think. After 1980 they ran a married unit. American specifications are another whole word of variety with big blocks etc. I suspect that the desirable automatics were probably not a divorced transfer case as they were the later models. The C6 that would have been fitted to the earlier units is a pretty power hungry and heavy beast.

    Regards,
    Tote
    Hello Tote,

    "Power hungry" are two words I do not like the sound of. Looks like I will be sticking with the optional diesel motor hooked up with the standard International gearbox like the D-1530, 1630 and D1830 had the choice of being fitted with.

    Just out of interest, I have been chasing information about the Cummins 160-B. Details seem short on the ground. Perhaps they were called something else more commonly? I took the designation "160-B" from an International D-Line sales brochure.

    Tote I had a look at your location - Yass, I grew up in Goulburn - interesting weather you are having down your way ... "feels like minus 3.5 degrees C"... hence why I now live in Queensland.

    Kind regards
    Lionel

  2. #12
    Lionelgee is offline YarnMaster Silver Subscriber
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    Hello All,

    There is D-Line 1310 four wheel drive elsewhere in Australia that the current owner is going to fit a 2 stroke diesel into. The exact make of the diesel is not named. What breed and capacity would be a likely contender? Accessed 4th June 2020 from, YouTube. It is a D-Line with an earlier AB Series cabin fitted to it

    I am sticking with the Perkins 6354.

    Kind regards
    Lionel

  3. #13
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    I don't know for sure but the 160 B Cummins is more than likely a 160hp Cummins 6BT engine. The 6bt would be lighter than a Perky and would also be capable a far higher power levels especially if you sourced a P pump engine. Bits for the 6bt would also be cheaper I would imagine.

  4. #14
    Lionelgee is offline YarnMaster Silver Subscriber
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    Quote Originally Posted by oka374 View Post
    I don't know for sure but the 160 B Cummins is more than likely a 160hp Cummins 6BT engine. The 6bt would be lighter than a Perky and would also be capable a far higher power levels especially if you sourced a P pump engine. Bits for the 6bt would also be cheaper I would imagine.
    Hello OKA374,

    Thanks for the information about the 160hp Cummins 6BT engine.

    I found another big Ford truck fitted with a Perkins 6354 on YouTube. It is a 1977 F350 "Camper Special" with a Perkins 6.354.4 (Turbo), accessed 4th June 2020 from, YouTube

    Kind regards
    Lionel

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by oka374 View Post
    I don't know for sure but the 160 B Cummins is more than likely a 160hp Cummins 6BT engine. The 6bt would be lighter than a Perky and would also be capable a far higher power levels especially if you sourced a P pump engine. Bits for the 6bt would also be cheaper I would imagine.
    There is some info here:

    Cummins C-180

    In the early 1950s, Cummins did some research on the post-WW II Australian truck market that was then dominated by underpowered European diesel lorries and mainly petrol-powered North American trucks.

    Blackwood Hodge was the service agent for Cummins Diesels and also did some repowering of petrol and other-brand diesel trucks, using the Cummins JBS, 150hp engine.

    The larger Cummins HB600 – forerunner of the famous 14-litre, N-series – had less appeal, because it was heavy and expensive and there were no drivelines capable of handling its torque.

    Linehaul was virtually unknown at that time, so the decision was made in 1961 to introduce the new C-series, a 464-cubic inch (7.6-litre) in-line six that had the Cummins PT fuel system and was offered at 160hp (naturally aspirated), 175hp (turbocharged) 180hp (supercharged) and 190hp (turbocharged).

    History: Cummins engines Down Under - www.trucksales.com.au

    The two stroke diesel would most likely be a 6-53 GM, they were fitted to the Dodge version (D5N) of the trucks like this one dodge d5n 6v53 gm prime mover - Historic Commercial Vehicle Club of Australia Might be a bit big for your beast though, you might be able to fit a 4-53 GM but I'm not sure I'd bother and AFAIK they were never fitted to Dodge trucks.

    Regards,
    Tote
    Go home, your igloo is on fire....
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  6. #16
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    What was the original setup ? 345 petrol into a NP435 4 speed into a Np 205 into Inter rear diff and Dana 44 or Dana 70 front diff ? Transfer case is a winner but I'm not sure if you'll find a decent NP 435 any more and it's only a 4 speed anyway

    Did the 1210 come with the duallys or has this been grafted from a 1310 or something ? Looks to be a fair project which ever way you go. Any particular reason you're going down the 6.354 route ? the later Phasers would be more common / easier for parts I would have thought. If money no object how about a 6BT into NP4500 into existing NP 205 into ......................... sorry, just dreaming

    Sorry for the 100 questions but it looks to be a good project

    Deano
    66 SIIA SWB .......73 SIII LWB diesel wgn
    86 RR 'classic'......99 Range Rover P38a
    94 Defender 110..95 Defender 130 Ute
    96 D1 300TDi.......99 D2 TD5 (current)
    04 D2a Td5..........02 Disco 2 V8

  7. #17
    Lionelgee is offline YarnMaster Silver Subscriber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tote View Post
    There is some info here:

    Cummins C-180

    In the early 1950s, Cummins did some research on the post-WW II Australian truck market that was then dominated by underpowered European diesel lorries and mainly petrol-powered North American trucks.

    Blackwood Hodge was the service agent for Cummins Diesels and also did some repowering of petrol and other-brand diesel trucks, using the Cummins JBS, 150hp engine.

    The larger Cummins HB600 – forerunner of the famous 14-litre, N-series – had less appeal, because it was heavy and expensive and there were no drivelines capable of handling its torque.

    Linehaul was virtually unknown at that time, so the decision was made in 1961 to introduce the new C-series, a 464-cubic inch (7.6-litre) in-line six that had the Cummins PT fuel system and was offered at 160hp (naturally aspirated), 175hp (turbocharged) 180hp (supercharged) and 190hp (turbocharged).

    History: Cummins engines Down Under - www.trucksales.com.au

    The two stroke diesel would most likely be a 6-53 GM, they were fitted to the Dodge version (D5N) of the trucks like this one dodge d5n 6v53 gm prime mover - Historic Commercial Vehicle Club of Australia Might be a bit big for your beast though, you might be able to fit a 4-53 GM but I'm not sure I'd bother and AFAIK they were never fitted to Dodge trucks.

    Regards,
    Tote
    Hello Tote & All Interested Parties,

    Thanks again for the detailed information. No I will not be going down the path of the GM two strokes - I am just naturally inquisitive.

    I was tracking down more modern versions of the Perkins such as the Phaser. However, the first engines that came available just happened to be Perkins 6354 motors. Just luck of the draw I suppose. Or maybe lack thereof within the subsequent draw?

    As things happen - a Phaser turned up just 50 kilometres away... Sod it - as the Perkins 6354 had already been confirmed and committed to. To quote Maxwell Smart... "I missed it by that much..."

    Kind regards
    Lionel

  8. #18
    Lionelgee is offline YarnMaster Silver Subscriber
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeanoH View Post
    What was the original setup ? 345 petrol into a NP435 4 speed into a Np 205 into Inter rear diff and Dana 44 or Dana 70 front diff ? Transfer case is a winner but I'm not sure if you'll find a decent NP 435 any more and it's only a 4 speed anyway

    Did the 1210 come with the duallys or has this been grafted from a 1310 or something ? Looks to be a fair project which ever way you go. Any particular reason you're going down the 6.354 route ? the later Phasers would be more common / easier for parts I would have thought. If money no object how about a 6BT into NP4500 into existing NP 205 into ......................... sorry, just dreaming

    Sorry for the 100 questions but it looks to be a good project

    Deano
    Hello Deano,

    Check out Gumtree and Facebook - there are a couple of International Vans; two wheel drive and four wheel drive, currently for sale.

    From what I can work out the D-Line vans were a special contract for Telecom. The D-Line came out only with a van in the 1210 and it was a two wheel drive. It seems part of the contract for Telecom was that International bolted the 1210 van body onto a 1310 chassis and running gear - the duals for this contractual configuration were standard. I was informed by a ex-Telstra mechanic that back in the PMG and Telecom era anything over three tons had duals fitted to it as part of their operational policy.

    The way you are rattling off gearbox codes from different manufacturer's your knowledge about these vehicles surpasses mine.

    The Perkins 6354 route was chosen because I wanted to replace the Ford V8 302 engine and C4 automatic gearbox that the van came with and replace it with a diesel motor for towing. I was looking for different alternatives for diesel power and the Perkins 6354 just happen to become available first. Through my interest in Australian military vehicles I was already familiar with the International Mark 1 - IV and the Teaspoon Tippers. A popular re-power of these vehicles in civilian hands was the Perkins 6354. It was not until about a month or so ago I came across a D-Line sales brochure that showed that larger capacity International trucks came with a diesel option - the Perkins 6354. Therefore, fitting a Perkins into a 1210/1310 is not that sacrilegious after-all.

    Things to do in the near future is to track down to see if Telstra has a history unit and get some information about the contractual specifications of the vans. There is a photographic history of PMG-Telecom vehicles however it lacks written content. Also to read up on how to identify gearboxes transfer cases and differentials. Teach myself how to MIG weld and start sorting out the firewall, door and floor rust holes.

    The purpose for getting one of these vans is that my late father was a long-term PMG-Telecom-Telstra Linesman and I remember these vans being his work vehicle. These vans had a real physical presence back then when I was a kid. They still do today!

    You can wake up now since I have probably put you to sleep.

    Kind regards
    Lionel

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionelgee View Post
    Hello Deano,
    .................... The way you are rattling off gearbox codes from different manufacturer's your knowledge about these vehicles surpasses mine.
    Kind regards
    Lionel
    Ha,ha ..................... hardly, just another 4WD truck tragic

    I used to have a bit to do with C1300 4WD's many years ago but more recently with the Oka which had a Phaser 110 until upgraded to a Cummins 6BT, same as OKA374 who replied earlier. I considered upgrading the factory Spicer/Turner 5 speed at the same time but stuck with it as it's a pretty strong and reliable unit though did consider the NV4500 which is a very good 5 speed OD gearbox and can mate directly to a NP205 transfer case if needed.
    IMO the NP205 is the best TC of its era and the TC of choice in many upgrades today and should be the TC in your D1310 chassis . In fact I've got a fully rebuilt divorced NP205 sitting on the shed floor to go into my Oka to upgrade the factory TC. (early Okas had NP205 factory fitted , later versions had a Rockwell cloverleaf TC ) My NP 205 came from an ex-RAAF 1610A so again the Inter tie in. There's a couple of Okas out there with 6 cyl Phasers but none that I know of with a 6.354. Same amount of engine upgrade effort for 120 HP with the 6.354 (assuming it's not the after-cooled turbo version) or 160 - 230 HP for a Phaser or 6BT.

    Grafting the 1210 body onto the 1310 chassis for explains a lot as I didn't think Inter made a 1210 4WD. I couldn't count the wheel nuts (6 or 8) which would have made it a bit easier, ............... instead of being series rivet counters us big boys can be wheel nut counters

    Good luck with the rebuild.

    Deano
    66 SIIA SWB .......73 SIII LWB diesel wgn
    86 RR 'classic'......99 Range Rover P38a
    94 Defender 110..95 Defender 130 Ute
    96 D1 300TDi.......99 D2 TD5 (current)
    04 D2a Td5..........02 Disco 2 V8

  10. #20
    Lionelgee is offline YarnMaster Silver Subscriber
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    Hello All,

    Part of today's activities involved more preparation for the engine transplant on Bluey. I took out the Ford V8 exhaust system and removed the LPG tank from the cargo area.

    In the process of removing the exhaust pipes I encountered a thing of folklore. I remember during the early consumer affairs segments on TV during the 1970s, the commentators mentioned about banana peels in the differential and tin cans covering holes in the exhaust. When I loosened off one of Bluey's exhaust brackets at a junction, this strange material started to unwrap itself. It was the sides of an old tin can wrapped a couple of times around the exhaust pipe! I had never actually seen this done before.

    The V8 system exited behind the rear wheels out the side of the van. From underneath Bluey I could see the remnants of the original layout that exited from under the back of the tray. The V8 system had been poorly supported and had eaten into the fibreglass side underneath the floor. When the Perkins gets fitted I will be going back to the original layout of the exhaust exiting out the rear of the vehicle.

    With the gas tank gone there is so much more usable space in the cargo area of the van. The only thing left to do now is to remove the piping and electrical wire out of the van. I will be leaving the external filler hole until I get the time to fibreglass the hole over. In total four holes were cut through various layers of fiberglass to fit the pipe work of the LPG system. All these need to be covered over - sometime, a fair while after the rust repairs are done.

    Kind regards
    Lionel

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