How brand loyal are you?

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Originally Posted by scrambler

Sure - how much money do you need?

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Open ended question that one! I reckon we could take an old Def, put a tiny diesel (say 0.8 to 1 litre) in it to turn some good sized alternators/ generators to power electric motors, one on each wheel (constant 4 wheel drive), revamp the suspension (got some ideas in mind there) to achieve the same clearance as those portals and get maximum ground clearance and wheel travel. Greatly reduce the weight and wear and tear components, seal it up so it doesn't leak, sound insulate it and install as standard all the usual add ons we desire. Whadya reckon? So really, for a prototype, not huge amounts of dough, but to engineer properly a lot more than I can afford. We'd need a sponsor.

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Originally Posted by Reads90

Mmm don't know how that was as my 95 tdi came into Aus in 2005 and was not tested for emissions. No body even looked at the engine

I was told it goes on the year it was made regs and not the year you import it so a 1971 diesel Landy would still be able to be imported into Aus today as it would have to meet the Aus 1971 regs and not the regs of today


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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sorry talking about New Zealand we are soooo.. emissions friendly here and lead the world in adding extra taxes on fuel etc under the guise of saving the planet ( so population will accept them) yet it only goes to the big black hole. if you have ownwed it say in Uk privately for 18 months you can bring it in still but not a one off purchase

Just to clarify matters
-Santana had the rights to use the Series III platform. They lost the right to use the "land rover" badge on their vehicles from 1987 on, when they were marketed as Santanas.

-The Santana chassis had always been like the Series II Land Rover, made of four plates welded. The Thomson-type box-sextion used from the Series III onwards was never used by Santana in their Series type vehicles

-The Lt85 box was a Santana design, sold by them to LR (Santana had good experience in gearboxes, as they built nearly all them for Citroën to use in the Spanish assembly plant in Vigo up to the 80's).
-Santana were pioneer to fit front disk brakes, from 1981 in all Series.
-The alpine windows were introduced by Santana.
-And some engineer claims the Disco 1 was designed by Santana (albeit with leaf springs). I have yet to see the blueprint but hope to see iy some day.

Come 1987 and Santana needs desperately a new product. Agreements with rover are over, they build the tiny J410 under licence and a revamp is needed

The SIII design evolves in 2 lines of vehicles (with a confusing name)
1.- 2,5 and 3,5 (according to engine size, the 4-pot diesel engine or a 6-pot by Santana design), the workhorse ones. Leaf springs, front disk brakes, 4 speed gearbox taken from SIII. Flush bonnet and front end like the Iranian pazhan

2.- 2,500 and 3,500 (same engines) luxury ones. SIII chassis, 5 speed LT85 gearbox, glassfibre roof (no condensation), cloth interior (same as a 90 or 110 county) carpeted, front disk brakes, leaf springs (parabolics) and wider axles (stretch the SIII axles to have the same dimnensions as the defender ones) and fit some nice wheel spats or arches as well.
A very nice spare wheel carrier on rear door was fitted as standard

1989 and the 6 cyl engine, (which was a 4 cylinder rover engine with 2 more cylinders, developed by Santana and Ricardo engineering) was dropped.

1994 and Santana is bankrupt. Production is stopped and all assembly lines, lock stock and barrel are sold to Morattab Mfg limited in Iran (who by the way had been building CKD Santanas form the 80s) together with spare parts for 10 years approximately

As they don't have supplies of engines and gearboxes they fit whatever they can find.
So Morattab did not copy Rover or Land Rover or Santana. Morattab just built the same cars Santana was building in the late 80's and early 90s.

2000s. Morattab just develops the range, adds the 3000 V6 engine and transmission from the Mitsubishi Pajero 1st generation and upgrades the suspension to coil springs.
Current axles fitted to Pazhans don't look like rover ones.

2002.- Santana revives, the PS10 is unveiled, boasting an Iveco engine and the Lt85 gearbox (too much torque for it) hence the problems with gears, cases stripping and so on.
As they had sold all assembly lines to Iran, all tooling had to be remade from scratch and the company was in dire necessity of funds, hence the haphazard looks of the dashboard in the first examples.

2004.- Santana upgrades the PS10 or Anibal in Spain fitting the 6 spped ZF gearbox from the BMW x5.
2006.- Santana unveils the PS10 Short wheelbase (longer than an 88", almost same dimensions as the 3 door Nissan Patrol from the 80s). Stood in prototype format. Seen in the 2006 Geneva motor show.

2008.- Agreement with Iveco. Iveco helps to update the egines to EU4 and EU5 and gets the right to sell santana vehicles as Iveco MAssif. Santan retains their name for military variants (many of them powering spanish army and Romanian as well).

end 2010.- The economic downturn makes Shareholders decide to close the assembly lines. Last vehicles rolled from the assembly lines in 2011. Agreement with Iveco is cancelled.
Some protoypes were made using the name Santana again, but was too late.

The PS10 had some very clever arrangements, as the body floorpan was a 1 piece welded steel one, all bodywork except for the loadbed was steel (but with a very poor rust protection), the chassis was very good but manufacturing necessities made dispense of the old series II type in favour of a Thomson-like type (as the Disco 2). Some chassis breakages in the front had been heard of.

You can see it in youtube as "Santana ANibal" that was teh name given in Spain. PS10 stood for export.

It has been said the assembly lines have been sold to a Korean group so we may hear something about them in the near future.

I've lived the Santana story since 1992, when I bought mine. One of the last 1000 built and the only one in Spain with the 2,5 petrol engine (all sold in Spain were diesel)

Cheers from Spain
Robert

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Originally Posted by RFollia

Just to clarify matters
<snip>
-The alpine windows were introduced by Santana.
<snip>
Cheers from Spain
Robert

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Thanks for the interesting facts about "Metalúrgica de Santa Ana" (Santana), however there is at least one bit of information which conflicts with Land Rover history. If Santana received a licence to build CKD kits in 1958 but only started to produce their own models in 1968, how could they have introduced alpine windows which were fitted to Solihul built series 1 stations in 1955 and were standard on SII 109 Station Wagons worldwide in 1957?

Diana :confused:

Bear in mind the overseas price will eb almost certainly cheaper than what the asking price here would end up....

How many companies will be building Defenders after 2015? and capture a market for aftermarket bolt ons for older (original) Defenders?

Would I buy one (of the alternatives) though?

I reckon second hand luxury is better than new mediocrity.

I know "luxury" might apply to old Range Rover vs new Land Cruiser or Pajero, but let's in the Defenders case use it to denote a level of robustness (I can't say workmanship).

I like the bigger back door on the wagon on the Santana PS10 ANIBAL youtube vid.

I note they were careful not to show a side view after they loaded the pallet of cement bags into the back. I think the poor thing would have been dragging its backside.

They show a 2.8 Tdi sticker on the back, I immediately though of the International engine from Brazil but then again Iveco might supply a 2.8 Tdi as well.

Hi all,
The first Santanas i'm not sure, but rolled out of the production line between 1958 and 1960. They were plain Series II, not the IIa. I've seen the number 12th off the production line, and it's in very good health. I've also seen one of the earliest (don't have chassis numbers or plate numbers to give the exact date of road registering) but Santana certainly began churning out LRs from the late 50s.
Besides, all Series Santanas had a 2 piece rear door, similar arrangement to the Series I station Wagen (86 or 88") so you could get rid of the roof and keep your rear half door in the summer...

There are lots of SAntana material here
Santana Dateien
from an Austrian enthusiast. All Santana material for the PS10.

Happy reading -and downloading-
Robert

On a scale of 1 to 10? TEN.

Once I pay off my Defender, I plan to trade our Commodore in on a new Discovery! :)

I then want to put a Mulgo Conversion on the Defender and set it up permanently for touring. :D