130 suspension too hard?

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Originally Posted by madandmuddy

Ok, so removed the helper springs at the weekend and didn't really make much difference. A bit better at lower speeds around town but still as bad as it ever was a speed on the highway.

Following on from previous comments though I am wondering if the shocks aren't long enough even though same lenght as OE. It is RAW nitro on at the moment and they did seem pretty much at the end of the travel when I had the wheels off but axle sitting at normal height. Helper spring removal didn't drop the rear any under the weight I carry so didn't help from that respect. Looks like I might have to revisit the shocks again :(

Anything else I may be missing??

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I also do not carry heavy loads in my 130, just camping gear. Removing the inner spring made a big difference in ride comfort, it would soak up bumps quite nicely. That would suggest your problem may be the shock travel. I recently made a trip to Dobinsons and had 45mm longer rear springs fitted. The (Pedders) rear shock for the standard height spring was almost fully extended with the 45mm lift.

The high recommended rear tyre pressure is for loads. Around the 40 psi, + or - a few, is fine for light loads (I also have Maxxis).

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Originally Posted by ugu80

I also do not carry heavy loads in my 130, just camping gear. Removing the inner spring made a big difference in ride comfort, it would soak up bumps quite nicely. That would suggest your problem may be the shock travel. I recently made a trip to Dobinsons and had 45mm longer rear springs fitted. The (Pedders) rear shock for the standard height spring was almost fully extended with the 45mm lift.

The high recommended rear tyre pressure is for loads. Around the 40 psi, + or - a few, is fine for light loads (I also have Maxxis).

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What is classed as a "light load" for a defender 130 ?

I have been told that higher tyre pressures increase tyre life, improve economy and are also safer......so I run mine at 55 psi. It does however even with the tyres at this pressure ride SOOOO much better than my landcruider 1999 tray diesel ute did !! Its like a couch its so comfy :D

I am classifiying a light load as up to 300kgs absolute max (in the tray/tub). Running 55psi will give you a pubic hair better fuel consumption at the expense of a much harsher ride. If you run 55psi without frequently carrying a load, you will find you will have slightly increased wear in the centre of the tyre. I discussed my tyre pressure requirements with respected land rover experts (Coopers in Sydney) i.e. empty in City and with just camping gear (around 250kgs fully loaded and fuelled) and they recommended around 40psi (all around) in town and 45psi (for bitumen) when loaded with camping gear. My tyres are wearing evenly and comfort is good (have 235/85/16 Maxxis).

Yup, completely agree in regards to the pressures. On my tyres at 55psi there was no ground contact at the out edges at all. This was a similar load of around 250kg in the back max. Down to 38-40 they are sitting pretty flat on the road.

Tyre pressure is strongly related to tyre construction too.
eg. I always ran my BFG MT's at around 33psi with 4-500kg in the tub, but I use 41psi ATM with Bighorns. The Maxxis tyres are much more flexy in the sidewall so need more air.

The rating plate suggesting 75PSI at all times with the old Michelin XZL's is a bad joke.

Just for the sake of the exercise I popped the inners out on the weekend too and the arse dropped by over 25mm between the bump stops, but the ride and handling is so much better it isn't funny.
The better handling comes down to the rebound characteristics of the shocks better suiting the lighter spring rate now, but it still isn't anywhere near ideal.
New dampers are going to have to happen over the next few months.

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Originally Posted by rick130

Just for the sake of the exercise I popped the inners out on the weekend too and the arse dropped by over 25mm between the bump stops, but the ride and handling is so much better it isn't funny.
The better handling comes down to the rebound characteristics of the shocks better suiting the lighter spring rate now, but it still isn't anywhere near ideal.
New dampers are going to have to happen over the next few months.

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Interestingly mine didn't drop the slightest bit with the helpers removed so it's possible the main springs are still too over sprung for the weight I am carrying! So not sure if I have the wrong shocks or need to change the new springs for something different or adjustable... :confused:

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Originally Posted by madandmuddy

Interestingly mine didn't drop the slightest bit with the helpers removed so it's possible the main springs are still too over sprung for the weight I am carrying! So not sure if I have the wrong shocks or need to change the new springs for something different or adjustable... :confused:

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Pulling the helper springs out just makes it the same as what 110 Defenders were sold here in Oz for quite a few years.
If you think it's still too stiff i'd be looking at something like the OME 752 or 755 spring or LRA 110 rears as listed in the link I posted above land rover spring specifications

FWIW the original 110 rear end with load leveller only used 180lb/in springs, so it rode like Rangie.

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Originally Posted by madandmuddy

Interestingly mine didn't drop the slightest bit with the helpers removed so it's possible the main springs are still too over sprung for the weight I am carrying! So not sure if I have the wrong shocks or need to change the new springs for something different or adjustable... :confused:

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What colour paint is on your main (outer) springs?

If Brown & Purple (that's what is on my 130), then you have progressives that start at 270Lb and go to 420Lb. The inner springs are 130Lb from memory. Together they both rely on having a bit of weight in the back to be comfortable.

LRA will sell you a new set of lighter duty springs for around $250: Coil Springs

HTH
David

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Originally Posted by spudboy

What colour paint is on your main (outer) springs?

If Brown & Purple (that's what is on my 130), then you have progressives that start at 270Lb and go to 420Lb. The inner springs are 130Lb from memory. Together they both rely on having a bit of weight in the back to be comfortable.

LRA will sell you a new set of lighter duty springs for around $250: Coil Springs

HTH
David

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I'm guessing an '01 would still be red/green and red/red ? (330lb/in)
The inners are 140lb going off my measurements.

Ok, so helper springs out and the ride was not improved in the slightest and I am sure it's getting worse. So it went up of the 4 post lift this afternoon in the village garage for a good look over. We found a couple of things, bushes on steering damper worn so possible steering damper useless too, worn bush on one side of rear anti-roll bar and a partially siezed bush on one side of the rear axle A frame.

One question though, with the vehicle on the hoist and then the back lifted until the wheels were in the air there was only 6cm drop in the axle. Surely there should be more drop that that?? This was from measuring centre of wheel hub to top of wheel arch. If there should be more movement than that maybe the shocks are holding it and not long enough, we will probably drop them off in the morning and see. Any thoughts or comments?

The other slightly odd thing was with the springs on the front axle. Again with the wheel in the air the drivers side was about 1cm lower than the passenger side. However the drivers side spring was still tight yet the passenger side you could almost wiggle a finger underneath. Maybe it's time for new springs.

Hohum, going to get expensive!