Also having gearbox issues (big crunch between 2nd & 3rd) which the stealer reckons is normal backlash.
IMHO, what we are seing are the results of the cost-cutting measures when the Puma was designed & built. :mad:
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Also having gearbox issues (big crunch between 2nd & 3rd) which the stealer reckons is normal backlash.
IMHO, what we are seing are the results of the cost-cutting measures when the Puma was designed & built. :mad:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2
Im not sure it's fair to compare the Nissan GQ with a LR, (former GQ 4.2D owner as well)
Its my understanding that the 4.2D was either designed or built by Nissan UD trucks, with an operating distance of 1 million kms before rebuild.
In the GQ , everything is big and tough, 2 big oil filters, 2 big air filters (if u have the older factory snorkel) 10.5l of engine oil, Huge diffs, the gearbox is/was the toughest Nissan made.
Now im not trying to flame anyone, but its a basic fact that LR isnt know for its quality, traditional British build quality is like Jeremy Clarkson says, lots of 'That'll do' moments from the engineering dept and 'She'll be right' work from the factory.
Truth be told though, if LR's were reliable they probably wouldn't be as popular, its the emotional attachment that makes them so special.
Not sure I can concur..and whilst I respect your view..LR have had 60 years to get it right and whilst the argument might have been valid in 1950, I reckon that it is not unreasonable in 2010 to expect decent build quality and reliability for your hard earned.
This is my 2nd LR experience and I was hoping it would be a lot better than the first..the jury is still out.
In my honest opinion, for the long term good of the brand, Land rover need their customers to make them accountable, not make excuses for them. Not trying to have a go at you guys but it is just the way I see it.
I love the Defender but do not see why I should have to excuse it for being a Land rover. I didn’t get a discount for poor quality. I am not asking it to do something beyond what it was built and marketed for. On paper it will do what I want to be doing, really well. Now I just need it to do it on the dirt, reliably and then I will be a really happy Land rover camper singing their praise from the most remote location I can find.
I actually think better reliability would have made Land Rover much more popular and not the quirky niche product it's is. But I do agree with the second part of the above sentence regarding emotional attachment. Surely reliability and character don't have to be mutually exclusive?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish78
"This attitude that Land Rover faults are part of the vehilce's character is the very thing that encourages Land Rover to fob it's customers off with substandard build quality.For to long now we, land rover buyers, have had to put up with poor build quality, regular breakdowns on new vehicles and land Rovers premise that the customer is never right.If you bought a new pair of boots that leaked from day one, would you regard that as being part of the character of the boots?"
LRO Magazine, September 1998, p19.
Seems the world never turns for Land Rover.
What a shame......send it to India and let Tata have a crack at it.
Paul
G'day Nugget.
I bought my '04 TD5 Disco 5 speed manual new. On the way home from the dealer, it crunched gear changes between 1st and second and from 3rd to second. I took it back to them and they told me that the g/box is new and it will require some running in. Being a fitter/turner by trade and fairly mechanically minded I thought "fair enough" and I gave it a chance, 66480Km later generally, it is a very pleasant box to use. It is still a little notchy when cold but not to the extent where it is a pain. I am still running caltex MTF94 which was the OME recommended oil because I bought 20l of it. When this runs out I will change over to SynTrans. My Disco has a driveline clunk when I back out of my garage, more of a click really, and it only seems to happen here. Maybe it is the change of direction of drive? My experience with LR dealers are that they are ham fisted twits. They stripped the threaded holes on my centrifuge filter housing. Rather than take it back to them, I drilled and tapped them out to 8mm. The bolts on the fuel pressure regulator have their heads rounded....
Like you have said nugget, quality control must be an issue here. I'd take her to a reputable LR specialist, someone who knows and loves Landy's like we do. Get a second opinion on your issues and then take it back to LR. I had the fuel lines chafe through while on hols in the Snowys. There it stayed for 2 months because there were no spares in the country. Turned out to be the "green" banded line had chaffed through spraying a fine mist of fuel. I got the spare (cost $35 for F sake!) and fixed it myself. All fuel lines have now enough insulation on them they will never chafe through again touch wood. Over all like you, I love my Landy and I look foward to every time I drive it because I have fitted so many cool things to it myself such as UHF, JVC head unit & reverse camera, low coolant alarm, TM2 engine watchdog, ect. Hopefully I am well on the way of worming out the known issues as I intend to keep it long term, thats why I bought it new in the first place. So hang in there mate, fix as much as you can yourself, I know that is what a warranty is for but......
PS: And I'm sure we all know how good Patrols are...'nuf said.
Regards
Robbo
Nugget I sympathise with you. I have had my share of issues. And yes these vehicles are not cheap for what you get. Compared to other makes perhaps they should have 6 year warranties to justify the price.
But in saying that don't forget it's not just LR that fail.
The apprentice at work, and the guy who did my canvas both have Mazda BT50's. Both have had new gear boxes, and radiators. One has had fuel lines replaces, the other had had a rear diff.
Another mate has a new Mitsi Challenger and has had a turbo, and manifold replaced. One of my staff, his new Triton has had perishing interior, and I have seen 5 Tritons on tilt tray recently.
I think as frustrating as it is, it's a reflection of cost cutting, and vehicles made to last a period of time, not indefinitely as once were. However they offer warranty do I will be getting LR to look at every thing that fails on my Defer. I take pictures, I keep a log of events, I send emails so I have a record; and will be asking LRA every time to come good on the 60K I gave them for a reliable 4x4 I expected in return.
I think I would prefer a reliable vehicle, and for go the Land Rover quirky reputation.
Hi Newhue,
I agree 100%. All makes and models have their issues and I understand that but in 30 years of owning 4WD's only twice have I been expected to accept faulty workmanship for the good of the marquee....both Land rovers.
It is how the brand and their dealers handle things when it isn't right that sets them apart. My H3 lost a couple of teeth on the front crown a couple of days before I was due to drive from Brisbane to Melbourne, returning following the Darling River for a 4WD Action article I was to do. There was no argument from Hummer but no part in Aussie so the dealer took a complete diff out of a new car on the lot and swapped it over in a morning to get me going.
Had an oil pump go in an early LS1 V8 ute which required the engine being removed to fix. Happened just as I arrived in Sydney having driven down from Brissie and luckily as I was going past a dealer. Drove in, they immediately said "known problem", we have arranged a hire car at the Avis down the road to which we will give you a lift, see you in 3 days, no charge, sorry for the inconvenience, thank you Sir!
Then I go into LR and they stick a wet finger in the air, throw a few tarot cards on the table, rip a used tea bag open and spread the contents on the desk, have to a listen to a few others on the lot and there by decide that it is the same as them and therefore "normal"! Stone the crows.
To then have the dealer be so ham-fisted is just totally unacceptable. I am not just a whinger looking for faults. My plan is to do all the Len Beadell highways in this truck so I need it to be right. I will be the strongest and loudest supporter, but equally I will be a savage critic if they gin me around.
I accept the design quirks because I could see them, try them and decide whether or not I could live with them, which I obviously have, but you buy a truck expecting, not unreasonably I would argue, for it to be mechanically sound. Time bombs like sloppy driveline etc should not have to be accepted as part of the “Land rover experience”. Sorry guys.
EXACTLY.....well saidQuote:
Originally Posted by nugge t
The Puma is definitely pulling the reputation of LR down,you only have to look at the threads on this site,& some are from guys that work at LR.
My son has one,& we are still debating on whether to keep it or move it on,particularly with the issues of the extended warranty possibly not being available.(why would that be?)
I have never had a jap 4x4,but there is a good chance of one arriving in the carport when the D2 needs replacing,which isn't far away.
I have had,over the last 20yrs,a fleet of jap vans.We have never ever replaced a driveline component,apart from a couple of clutches.Never had an engine,g/box,diff,tailshaft repair.These vans were driven by staff,and most carried around 900kg of weight in them all the time,a lot of work was around town.The hiaces we have now weigh in at 2.75T on the scales.
Being work vehicles,these vehicles have to be on the road all day,everyday.
And they are,thats why we use them.
LR's reliability reputation isn't the greatest as we all know,these Puma issues are not helping.
They have ,it seems improved reliability in their other models,which is good to see.:)
nugge t, if you are talking about a Brisbane dealer which I expect you are, than I agree you can do better. Mine showed up on a tilt tray with 1200klm on the clock, not a mention of a replacement vehicle, and I was too dumb to ask. Two weeks later after I was over supporting LR's warranty with my fathers vehicle, mine miraculously was fixed.
It went back to where I bought it from on the Gold Coast, also on a tilt tray with 1500klm on it, but there was a loaner waiting ready to go, and a very different attitude.
I found Brisbane to be exactly as you have experienced, vague and uninterested. They didn't even call me back when I was wanting (not looking) to buy. I had just spent an hour and a half with the salesman, had gone home for an hour and rang back with a general question about tray and style side options and the call was never returned, go figure. I have a good friend who purchased a VWGT from the same dealer's collection of brands and had similar experiences.
On the other hand, I have found GC to be very willing to get to the bottom of issues, apologetic, and knowledge of the Defender excellent. Poor buggers must be embarrassing dealing with Land Rovers some days. They also had to deal with LRA please explain from my comments about the Brisbane dealer. It appears LRA can't get that bit right either.
I do wonder is I have made the wright choice, I really like driving this car, and I think the LR family is great. But on the build quality side of things it does have me concerned about our hopeful lap around this nation. Time will prove if I have made the write choice.
Remember the fist to loose his cool looses, so cool, calm, and uncomfortably honest when dealing with LRA. Hopefully we will all end up with better Defenders in the future.