Thread: Just "Defender" or bad quality?

I made a comment a few pages back, saying it wasn't fair to compare LR with Nissan, to clarify, i wasn't supporting LR's lack of service/reliability, the point i was getting to was, its not fair to compare them because LR has a certain record of problems, knowing this you should be aware that buying any LR comes with baggage, is that ok, no its bloody terrible, but it is what it is.

As for the 3-6 yr life time, that's rubbish, my father has a 1998 hyundia Exel, it has done 500 000 plus KM, 85% of that is on dirt roads as it is used on a country mail run, it gets maintained by a mechainc, BUT it is on the original engine and original gearbox which still feel quite good. The Exel gets serviced every 10k and the normal things have been replaced, discs, fuel inj has had an overhaul, but the engine is still from the factory, never opened, never had any problems with it, it has always started first time and never broken down.

If the Koreans can make a car that cost $12,999 new in 1998, then LR surely can build one that costs in excess of $50 000 with the same quality.

Knowing all that doesnt change how i feel, i still like LRs and love RRs, i just know what to expect and i find it enjoyable to get the best out of them.

Originally Posted by trailcutter

666

???

Yep, gotta say I'm happy with my Puma, warts n all. Mine's for playing mind, so I'm not too fussed if it's out of action and I have to walk a bit further to get to that fishing spot. To comment on some thing I've read in this thread...I've worked for mining companies for 25 years, and yes they use toyotas or occasionally nissans in the main. We have used defenders at a couple of sites I've worked at and they were fine too. The big Jap makers are better at up-front fleet pricing and spare part supply. Oh, and those Rover glasses - they come free with every Land Rover!

Happy new year!
Chops110

hi.all.im.new.here.hope.ya.dont.mind.me.commenting .i.work.and.play.in.the
gulf.of.carpentaria.just.did.12.weeks.at.doomadge.
i.would.not.touch.anything.with.direct.injecton.as .they.are.much.more.likely.to.cause
problems.when.touring.my.98.110.tdi.has.never.miss ed.a.beat.270000ks
but.there.have.been.probs.with.direct.i.have.seen. one.with.a.puma
and.is.looking.to.be.expensive.but.the.most.seem.t o.be.with.the.new.cruisers
and.nissans.ya.can.google.it.and.read.it.for.yours elves.defender.owners.are
i.think.enthuists.unfourtantly.alluminum.and.steel .dont.mix
but.in.saying.that.i.dont.wait.5000ks.to.check.thi ngs.out.i.enjoy.the.hands.on
deal.with.my.110.as.for.electrics.maybe.landrover. need.to.pick.there.act.up
if.i.was.gunna.spend.60grand.on.a.new.truck.woulda nt.be.a.puma.
but.they.are.still.on.par.with.anything.jap.in.doo madge.the.cops.and.the
ambos.take.turns.pulling.each.other.out.of.the.gre gory.river.crossing
as.the.cruisers.alternators.are.to.low.and.dont.ev en.wanna.start.me.on.the.
starter.motors.cheers.all.and.happy.new.year.sorry .about.all.the.stops.space.bar.broken

As part of an article I am doing for 4WD Action I decided to redo the diff breather lines and terminate them in a manifold..see members ride thread when I udate it a bit later....

Bottom line was that the front diff breather was not in the fitting properly meaning it was not sealed. The "hook" was too short so it did not reach the fixture section of the fitting and could be pulled out without depressing the release ring. Guess it is part of the close enough is good enough QA.

Something like this is really annoying as it looked fine but would have led to problems and it wears away at the confidence if some thing so simple can not be done right......

I bought this as the dealers demo and the salesman's famous words when I queried quality concerns....mate this one has been gone over with a fine toothed comb as it is our demo.........................

Still love the truck but obviously my comb has finer teeth and aren't I glad I didn't get one of the ones which hadn't had the benefit of a complete check over by the dealers finely tuned, eagle eyed, 365 days of experience, first year apprentice.

being a long time Landy driver/owner (40 years plus) I can tell you "all this....is 'normal'...for Landrovers"

You have to go back to 1948 and the 'original design intent'

POINT 1 :these critters were originally designed as a 'substitute tractor' for English farmers, which is why they were built with a PTO to the rear, so the cocky could hitch up his haybaler/chaffcutter.whatever.......

POINT 2: The gearboxes in these vehicles always have been (and I hope they never change....) TRUCK BOXES. read...."Industrial Grade" If I remember aright my old 54 Ser. I shorty had no synchro in 1st?! (and quite possibly none in any of the other gears also

POINT 3: these veehickles are 'Mil. Spec.light trucks' and are currently used as such by multitudinous Military bodies worldwide. Inc the Australian & Brit armies, AND, you HAVE to adopt the Military mindset when using these and SERVICE THEM REGULARLY !!

POINT 4: these vehicles are NOT designed for anything but the aforementioned uses. That we use them as an 'everyday commute' is beside the point !! I repeat , Landies are NOT a Toyota Prius.....or a Ser 7 BMW......you are DRIVING A TRUCK !! Got it !!?? You will NEVER get 'passenger car' performance from these things. so don't expect it. You've bought the finest 'off the shelf' 4 WD vehicle available.......the only mods you need to make are possibly 'serious rubber'....i.e. AT or MT tyres.

If you ain't happy, buy a new Ford or Holden sedan, but don't try and make a silk purse out of a sows ear !!

just remember.........ITS A TRUCK DAMMIT !!

Originally Posted by pathfinder

being a long time Landy driver/owner (40 years plus) I can tell you "all this....is 'normal'...for Landrovers"

You have to go back to 1948 and the 'original design intent'

POINT 1 :these critters were originally designed as a 'substitute tractor' for English farmers, which is why they were built with a PTO to the rear, so the cocky could hitch up his haybaler/chaffcutter.whatever.......

POINT 2: The gearboxes in these vehicles always have been (and I hope they never change....) TRUCK BOXES. read...."Industrial Grade" If I remember aright my old 54 Ser. I shorty had no synchro in 1st?! (and quite possibly none in any of the other gears also

POINT 3: these veehickles are 'Mil. Spec.light trucks' and are currently used as such by multitudinous Military bodies worldwide. Inc the Australian & Brit armies, AND, you HAVE to adopt the Military mindset when using these and SERVICE THEM REGULARLY !!

POINT 4: these vehicles are NOT designed for anything but the aforementioned uses. That we use them as an 'everyday commute' is beside the point !! I repeat , Landies are NOT a Toyota Prius.....or a Ser 7 BMW......you are DRIVING A TRUCK !! Got it !!?? You will NEVER get 'passenger car' performance from these things. so don't expect it. You've bought the finest 'off the shelf' 4 WD vehicle available.......the only mods you need to make are possibly 'serious rubber'....i.e. AT or MT tyres.

If you ain't happy, buy a new Ford or Holden sedan, but don't try and make a silk purse out of a sows ear !!

just remember.........ITS A TRUCK DAMMIT !!

If that rant is aimed at me I think you might want to chill out sunshine.

I don't disagree or are complaining about any of the things you list, in fact they are exactly the reasons I bought a Defender because I wanted a rugged, strong, no frills, reliable 4WD that would take me to remote areas and more importantly, get me back.

Just a couple of points

1. The English farmer didn't expect his sustitue tractor to break down when he was hauling the chaffcutter.

2. Give me an truck box .. give me a bloody tank box....just don't give me sloppy driveline where the slap has to cause wear and tell me it is good.

3. Like all things Military, they have there own specifications and I bet it doesn't include sloppy drivelines, diff breathers not connected propery and ABS wiring ready to rub through on chassis brackets. Personally I would be prefer no ABS, before you climb all over that.

More than happy to service it twice as much as recommended by the LR, the Military or bloody NASA for that matter but build it so I don't have to return it for warranty four times as often as I have to return it for service.

4. I didn't ask for passenger car performance or comfort. I actually like the driving position and love driving the truck and have fitted good rubber.

No where have I complained about the general design, performance, ride or comfort so I do not understand your outburst. Silly me I thought other Puma owners might appreciate the diff breather problem being pointed out so they could check theirs and posssibly save them some hurt down the track. Now that you have so kindly pointed out that all of this is normal, I'll save my time in future as, being "normal' they would have already found it for themselves.

What I believe I have done is drawn attention to bad build issues as I work on mine and if that offends your Land rover loyalty, tough.....go read another thread.

now THAT got yer dander up didn't it ??!!

I apologise if you thought I was having a go at you personally.I wasn't.

I was however,commenting generally on 'Landrover reality'.....and 'issues/problems' that have been ongoing with these vehicle since 1948.

When I bought my first Landy in the early 70's ( 54 Ser.1 SWB ragtop) the feller I bought it from told me, "it snaps rear axles, get yourself a couple of spares" I did, and sure enough it snapped axles! The later 'Salisbury diffs' were less prone to this phenomena, but even on my 96 110,last year I had to replace the back axles.

Basically we're talking 'build issues' when it comes to all things 'Landrover'...(and I'm also talking about 'mileage' issues.......)

A mate down the road with a 10 year old Rangie (verrry nice car) back traded it last week, for this very reason. It had cost almost double what he paid for it a year back, just to keep the damn thing on the road........electrics, electronics,driveline and finally a 'floating' cylinder sleeve in the block..... he was quoted $7500 for a reco motor. Pat, quite rightly threw in the towell and got rid of the burden for a big AWD Holden.

One of the major 'issues' we have in Australia that no other country in the world has (with the exception of Siberia perhaps?) is that we rack up the ks. Pats Rangie had done 240,000....my Deefer has done over 400,000..........The Poms never designed them to do this sort of mileage. A Pommie owned Landy might only do 100,000 miles ever! Unless it happens to be an 'expedition vehicle' or doing the 'Paris-Dakar' on a regular basis.

The reason Military Landies last so long is that they are regularly serviced. The Veh. Mtd boys in the SAS are checking theirs over daily. They have been 'trained' to do this..... and everything is 'logged'. You can be charged for not servicing your vehicle.
In civvie life this almost never happens. Most of us are not 'trained mechanics', nor do we take the time to check the mundane.............and we probably don't need to?

So whats the 'use by' date on Landies?? I doubt JRL would have a figure. However its 'generally accepted' that you 'ought to get' 4-500,000 ks out of the vehicle assuming its been regularly serviced and not flogged.

"driveline slop" ? ask me about it...............no...don't bother. The front propshaft 'blew' shortly after I bought the truck 3 years back........mostly due to lack of grease I suspect. The back always 'clunked' and only stopped 'clunking' after the LHS axle spit the dummy last year.

'Build quality'..............it has been said " the British car worker only warms to his task by mid-week........and by Thursday he's starting to lose interest again'....so working on that basis if your car was built on 'Wednesday' you're sweet!! Any other day of the week?? Tough !!