Defender Purchase Advice (300tdi vs td5)

Three suffixes of R380

J, K, L

J is the 'weaker' of the three. It's also the one which was prone to layshaft breakage (losing reverse and top) as well as mainshaft issues

K and L are pretty much the same; some of the bearings were beefed up, as were various lay shaft gears. The only visible difference is in the casting on the main box but I'm blowed if I can remember what it is

They run hot, in fact they run too hot if EU spec. Your RoW spec stuff should have an oil cooler. If not, fit one. Unless it loses oil like the Exxon Valdez then run the best oil you can (unlike on the LT77 which actually like cheapo oil but lots of changes!)

I think there are four types of R380 - A, B, C and D . Two are car spec, on eis P38 spec and the other is Defender/Disco

The Def/Disco ones differ in the way the gearstick mounts. Def is long stick and direct mount, Disco is short stick and remote linkage mount

So it seems...

-For pure "dumb" reliability and fixability, the TDi
-For performance, a TD5 preferably 2002 (is the oil in the loom still a prob?)
-Look for a regularly serviced one regardless.

One last question: If I'm looking at a 300, how well do they perform in soft sand? Is the lower torque and power (in std guise) an issue? -- I envisage a fair bit of soft beach work (fishing), as well as touring. I'm assuming it's not an issue, but would like to be sure.

I can possibly stretch the budget to a 2002, but have found what seems like a reasonably well sorted 94 tdi, and just need some opinions on how they handle the soft stuff.

Lastly, a local LR guy has told me that around the 150k mark, there's a good chance that the TD5s will need a lot of engine work (due to the dowels it sounded like), but the view here seems different. Have many td5 owners had to do much major engine work around this stage?

I know some of these questions may seem a bit trivial or redundant, but really want to be as sure as possible this time (the P38, while a brilliant vehicle, just isn't suitable for how I want to use it)

T

Thanks again for all the advice.

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Originally Posted by nonimouse

TD5 weak major spots: Loom,ECU,Injectors,EGR valve,Vacuum pump,Oil pump,Bottom end,Turbo,Exhaust manifold,Poor quality diesel (low calorific especially),Poor fuel economy. All issue experienced around the globe. However it's nice to drive, easy to drive, easy to tune. A great engine all in all if you look after it and know how to sort it out

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Loom - yes but almost a service item now..

ECU?? - i bet few and far between re failures...or do you mean its a weak point it has one? - alot would disagree... but its an opinion..

Injectors? - really? not heard of many issues?

EGR valve.. not major issue but they fall off easily ;)

Vac pump? again not heard of this... puma definitly..

oil pump BOLT - yep apparently fixed 2002 on... but check it anyway as both my 2002 ones were not loose.. not tight and had no loctite...

bottom end? i thought this was the 300tdi's weak point not the td5?

Turbo.. - same as any vehicle.. few issues where they have failed, but generally isnt it something else that causes them to fail? ie massive egts?

exhaust manifold - not on all of them but a very common well documented issue.. and one that i havent yet encountered... (touch lots of wood)

From what i have read will run on any old deisel you throw in there veggie deisel can cause issues with pipes and filters etc tho...

poor fuel economy? only my opinion.. but my disco has been as low as 8.8l/100k's and my defender can be around the 10.5 (except its not doing it at the mo... and i'm chasing why :) ) ihave seen lots of people that get as good as the 300tdi.. puma seems to chew more tho..

Anyways... another view point just to confuse you :) lots of people hear lots of things... doesnt matter what you buy you can always get a lemon (ask ron) or a diamond.. all luck of the draw...

Steve

My 300Tdi D110 is great is soft sand, with no performance mods, and running 235/85R16 tyres. If it's struggling, it'll be a tyre pressure thing, not an engine problem. I was at Robe a few years ago, it was a 40.C day and very other car (jeeps, patrols, cruisers) were all over heating. The 300Tdi Defenders in our group went without issue.

As for TD5 issues, I bought an '03 D2 because I thought they had them sorted by then. I replaced the head gasket a few weeks ago at about 170K and it had plastic dowels :mad::mad::mad::mad:

The longer I own a TD5 the more I love the Tdi.

ThoBar,don't take all this as whats going to happen to you,honesty on this forum is greater than any other I've ever delt with and no one on here will pull the wool over your eye's over problems our vehicles have.Look at both models and buy the best one you can find,they are out there and a sorted one of either model is a good buy and neither model has any issue's that can't be fixed. Pat

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Originally Posted by PAT303

ThoBar,don't take all this as whats going to happen to you,honesty on this forum is greater than any other I've ever delt with and no one on here will pull the wool over your eye's over problems our vehicles have.Look at both models and buy the best one you can find,they are out there and a sorted one of either model is a good buy and neither model has any issue's that can't be fixed. Pat

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Have no fear Pat, I'm not assuming these things will happen to me (though most likely ones seem to be happening with my p38 :mad:), but I'm using this as a guide as to what's most likely to happen and what to watch for. It's good to see a pragmatic debate about issues likely to occur, and how likely the issues are.

I'm leaning toward a particular 300Tdi at the moment, as it seems to have had a fair bit of preventative / rebuild work done on it, and it fits my budget. Although I'm not intending to rush, there's not a lot of choice over here right now, so it really is the best of whats available. That said, there's a couple over east that I'm not afraid to fly over for and drive back - if they check out.

T

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Originally Posted by 5teve

Loom - yes but.................. all luck of the draw... Steve

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No worries old lad. These are just a list of major components I've had fail more than once on a number of different vehicles in various far flung places; as well as issues that have occured in a similar vein.

The fuel thing has caused many issues, many times. Obviously in diesel quality varies, as does calorific value. I cannot reccomend draining a tank and purging a fuel line in -25C (-13F). Poor diesel jellifies (great word) so you need to throw in some petrol/vodka. Decent EU diesel doesn't. Veg oil is just mush. Take that poor diesel and add the fact that it is 10 years old, 20% water and has more rust in it than Scapa Flow. A 300Tdi has no issues - just change the filter...Not so the TD5

Deefers and sand are a good thing. I saw one of my brothers with his County pulling 2 tonns through deep soft sand with a 3500 and a blown head gasket and skinny stock MT's...gotta love it.

Cheers

ThoBar,

For remote touring I would be inclined to go the Tdi as well (if chosing between Tdi and TD5). My reasoning? - Simpler to understand, all mechanical, easier to troubleshoot and easier to fix in remote areas (for someone of my bush mechanic capabilities/limitations).

It does have less power/torque and is less refined than a TD5, but is well geared and will get you there in the end. It would be a price I would gladly pay for a peace of mind that I'll be able to deal with most things thrown at me on the road. Especially if you've got a line on a well sorted one with some desirable accessories fitted.

That's why I drive an 4BD1 / LT95 powered 120 (which I turboed and intercooled). It's not the most comfortable, or the quietest car on the road, but is the most reliable for remote area travel.

Having owned Tdi's and TD5s and travelled various parts of the world in both Id say this:

1. Buy the best example you can find / afford.
2. Service records are crucial
3. Go with your gut feel when you inspect, not just the vehicle but the person selling it also - question them heavily about use and their life with the car.

Seriously, on a well looked after and preparred vehicle neither will give you major issues.

My personal choice would be a TD5 (2002 onwards), but if I found a corking 300Tdi and an OK TD5 Id buy the 300TDi.

Jon