Thread: West Australian suspension idea (link will only work for a few days)

Originally Posted by PAT303

Sorry Serg I didn't watch the vid. Pat

just stirring

just did a quick search and it looks like Kinetic sold their stuff to Tenneco in 2006 for $52 million

I wonder what the set up was on the defender in the vid? It looked like the springs and shocks had been replaced with a single Ram on each corner. would be interesting if he could still set up a basic rig and how much$$

Originally Posted by uninformed

just did a quick search and it looks like Kinetic sold their stuff to Tenneco in 2006 for $52 million

I wonder what the set up was on the defender in the vid? It looked like the springs and shocks had been replaced with a single Ram on each corner. would be interesting if he could still set up a basic rig and how much$$

Serg - yes there is a single hydraulic ram at each corner which handles all duties normally handles by a spring/damper. There must also be some funky links on some of the vehicles to allow the articulation they get (I have a mag somewhere with a hilux in it - converted from leaves).

Kinetic offered one of the WA uni motorsport teams a licence for $1 to use their suspension system. The idiots turned down Kinetic's offer...

The diagonally cross linked rams at each wheel would surely need to be connected via an additional sprung hydraulic expansion chamber of some sort.Otherwise what happens when the interconnected wheels hit bumps simultaneously?

Originally Posted by Levitation

29-12-2010, 07:14 PM
Look, I don't have a modern Prado or KDSS, but I have followed the Kinetic suspension project of Chris Hayring's since the late ninties. In its simplest form KDSS is two double acting hydrolic cylinders, with one replacing the swaybar mount on one side at the front and one replacing the sway bar mount on the same side at the back. The two compessive hoses are contected together, and the two extending hoses are connected. Result is if the vehicle tries to lean, both cylinders are being compressed or both under tension and both are are stabilizing each other... no oil flows. However if you cross load your axles, the one unit is under compression, and one in under tension, the oil flows and one extends and the other contracts. Free movement, if a little restricted in speed. In the system there are two acumilators to equalize the pressures and take shock loading. You guys speak of a valve that is used to correct the lean? Ok this must allow the oil to flow between the epansive and compressive sides. The system is so simple that it must be pretty easy to work for the above info and work out how to park on a wee side angle, to correct the lean and open said valve to redistribute the oil.

KDSS - aftermarket suspension lift Ques? [Archive] - PradoPoint - Toyota Prado 4x4 Landcruiser Forum


If the above person's observations are correct it is active on one side, not cross axle or diagonally accross the vehicle. The better articulation seen on the Jeep and Defender on the vid could be due to forcing the suspension to work with better front/rear balance. The extra stability provided means softer more flexible suspension doesn't wallow on road. Seems logical enough!

This bloke reckons he is the Cheif Engineer at Kinetic:

Originally Posted by Ray Munday

With a conventional suspension (springs + anti-roll bars) the roll stiffness (cornering) and the articulation stiffness (think off-road, where bumps are trying to twist the front and rear suspension in opposite directions) are completely linked. If you want better handling you make the roll stiffness higher, but the articulation stiffness must also increase. High articulation stiffness = poor traction over bumps (and bad off-road performance). Low articulation stiffness = great off road performance and traction, but poor handling. There is always a compromise between the two.

In a nutshell - the system connects the front and rear anti-roll bars hydraulically (no electronics whatsoever). When the vehicle is in roll, the hydraulics resist any motion, so the anti-roll bars have full stiffness. When the vehicle is going over bumps (articulation) the hydraulics move and the anti-roll bars freely rotate. So you have the full effect of the anti-roll bar when you need it (in roll) and no anti-roll bar when you dont want it (in articulation).

Where the system is particularly clever is that it can do these things simultaneously. If there are bumps halfway around a corner, the system has full roll stiffness for handling but at the same time the wheels are able to freely move over the bumps. It is this benefit which has allowed the system to be applicable not only to 4wds (which is what it was originally invented for) but also for sports cars and race cars which require high handling performance but also need maximum corner traction when the road is not 100% smooth.

Its difficult to explain just using words - if you look at the website there is a little more in the way of pictures etc.

Citroen used the system on the Xsara WRC cars from 2003-2005 when it was dominant - there is even a small Kinetic sticker on the car. It was then banned by the FIA for being an unfair advantage! Mitsubishi Dakar used our technology in 2004 and 2005 to also win (after which time it was also banned...). I was lucky enough to work on both projects. Riding with Sebastian Loeb in Finland was an experience I will never forget (as was being in Africa for the Dakar rally - for very different reasons).

Sorry for the long post

Ray

Australian Suspension Technology on New LandCruiser 200 - R/C Tech Forums

Even though Tenneco own the rights to it, the bloke has thirty patents ATM

There's various degrees of sophistication, eg the Land Cruiser/Lexus system only has a single ram on each anti-roll bar with an accumulator between them.

Patent Searching Database

thanks Ben, I watched the landy in the vid about 20 times and it looks to me to be running stock RA's up front and stock rear links (hard to tell.) I can clearly see the front rams mounted to the lower spring shock mount.

I vaguely remember that Lux with massive wheel travel. It would not be hard to achive that with a basic 3 or 4 link and these rams...Im guessing the rams will "force" the articulation more than a spring shock combo...

Originally Posted by uninformed

thanks Ben, I watched the landy in the vid about 20 times and it looks to me to be running stock RA's up front and stock rear links (hard to tell.) I can clearly see the front rams mounted to the lower spring shock mount.

I vaguely remember that Lux with massive wheel travel. It would not be hard to achive that with a basic 3 or 4 link and these rams...Im guessing the rams will "force" the articulation more than a spring shock combo...

Yep, remember how we all used to talk about interconnecting airbags off road, as one is forced up it forces the diagonally opposite side down.

This is a better vid of the 110, from 1:50 on

http://youtu.be/1GfLTWQyF4A

[edit] how do you embed these bloody things ?