Dear Mr New Defender Developer Guy

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Originally Posted by Davo

The point is that they haven't tried with the Defender, not for decades, and unsupported its potential has never been realised.

As for the real world, there's just no comparison between a Defender and something expensive and complicated. The Defender is made for bolting things on, carrying large loads, simple repairs, and is still, as they used to say long ago when they actually advertised Land-Rovers, "the world's most versatile vehicle".

As for the real world, just look at all the traybacks and specialist vehicles and tradies trucks and the military, and if you're really keen, just come up here and see how many Troopies and LandCruiser traybacks there are - instead of Landies.

The people running Land Rover are idiots, complete idiots, and the Defender hasn't been properly supported for the entire time I've been toying with Landies, which is almost 25 years. And the Series Landies were never supported before that. They've always had a unique product they didn't know what to do with, and it took Toyota, with it's equally noisy and rough four-wheel-drives, to aggresively take on the market and win. Full marks to them for that.

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I agree completely with you Davo, full credit to Toyota and Nissan for making something to cope with harsh conditions, good drive trains and suspension, with decent sized engines and an agressive marketing campain to get their product into the market place with dealer back up as well. Admittedly, lately Toyota have been a bit lax in backing their product when used "enthuiastically", as are all manufacturers, but by and large they have a very tough product. It's just a shame that Land Rover, instead of listening to some moron in Brussels dictating emission levels, listen to their customers for a change and give them what they want and deserve and if the product and back up service is as good as the vehicle they produce, then sales numbers of the product would reflect that. Look, the Hilux/Landcruisers are very good vehicles, there is no denying that, the sales figure are good even though the price of the vehicle is excessive for what you get in a standard vehicle compared to other very competent competetors in their respective classes and Land Rover could have exactly the same success if they just pulled their collective fingers out, bit the bullet and listened to customer feedback.

And what makes you think they didn't listen?

They did… and the Range Rover was born...

They did... And the Freelander was born...

They did… and the Evoque was born...

Now they're listening to a huge potential market... And the concepts are coming.

The biggest expanding markets... Not the "die hard" who think that a Defender is the be all and end all of a All Terrain Vehicle..

Defenders are great vehicles - again I love them... Had them... Go misty eyed at them.

But not what you lot are romanticizing at all.

Enjoy your vehicles - they are great... But will never sell in volume...

I can get a decent dual cab, all mod cons, and dust and door seals. That will do the Cape, gun barrel etc no problems..

Take the blinkers off... I bleed Green but I'm not blind or stupid... I'm realistic... And getting old.

Skuilnaam

I have been told by contacts in LR at around 88 avg Defenders come off the line a day. 100 on a good day and 75 on a bad day.

Around 12 of those are CKDs. It's not what you would call amazing....

Considering in the building across the road over 900 RR:Sports Disco4s are coming off the line. And they are about to ramp up to a third shift so perhaps over 1000 per day....

Defender has to go but to replace with what is the question? They need a platform that can handle a cab chassis. Solid Axles on aleast the rear. No other LR Product / Platform meets this.

There is no doubt it has a healthy following but price and a poor stigma also seem to follow it as well.

There has to be bias in there somewhere. I read a shoot out where the Defender came a distant last, or 6th. Compared with Pajero, FJ cruiser, 2x Jeeps, and a Patrol, all mostly family orientated vehicles. I felt it should have been compared to the 79 series toyota and maybe just the patrol. These are the only range of vehicles that have a similar variants in the one body. All slow and few mod cons.
The reporters do Defender no favours, but HQ seem to do little to fight back as well.

What I do find interesting though, after a certain magazine has taken the bollocks on Defender for years, has now started include one in every magazine and found one to go along with their videos. I wonder if their mighty Land Cruisers and Patrol are fading as well. The Jap twin cab gets a very small look in even though the sales are gong gang busters.

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Originally Posted by skuilnaam

And what makes you think they didn't listen?

They did… and the Range Rover was born...

They did... And the Freelander was born...

They did… and the Evoque was born...

Now they're listening to a huge potential market... And the concepts are coming.

The biggest expanding markets... Not the "die hard" who think that a Defender is the be all and end all of a All Terrain Vehicle..

Defenders are great vehicles - again I love them... Had them... Go misty eyed at them.

But not what you lot are romanticizing at all.

Enjoy your vehicles - they are great... But will never sell in volume...

I can get a decent dual cab, all mod cons, and dust and door seals. That will do the Cape, gun barrel etc no problems..

Take the blinkers off... I bleed Green but I'm not blind or stupid... I'm realistic... And getting old.

Skuilnaam

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We are talking about a replacement defender here, not continuing the current one...

If the RR, Disco, Freelander, Evoque are selling so well and please so many of you then Land Rover can afford to keep the defender alive in a model that is true to form. It would be a fail if they turned it into another city spec SUV and killed the foundation of the Land Rover brand.

The look of the new defender can change and a new vehicle built from the ground up is the way to go but it should compliment the best parts of the original land rover...

I would love to see:
- the modular ethos contiuned where you can simply bolt on/off pretty much any component with basic tools.
- the use of composite materials for lightweight bodywork that will not rust.
- bodywork panels likely to get bashed should be cheap and easily replaced.
- strong chassis with solid axles.. galvanised steel built to last.
- just as high payload and tow figures
- various bolt on body types and chassis lengths, van, cab, tray back etc
- an interior choice that can be luxurious or hose down utilitarian.
- next level high tech traction/off road aids including mech locking diffs.
- an engine and gearbox that works great on the highway but even better for offroad.
- quality dust filtered air conditioning and dust proof cabin
- smart sound proofing
- no leaks
- as good or better approach/departure angles

In short keep all that is good, and fix all that is bad. Theres no reason why the new defender could not satify the die hard and the sell outs.

If they get it right then it could carry the integrity of the brand for another 50 years.

dreaming..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skuilnaam

And what makes you think they didn't listen?

They did… and the Range Rover was born...

They did... And the Freelander was born...

They did… and the Evoque was born...

Now they're listening to a huge potential market... And the concepts are coming.

The biggest expanding markets... Not the "die hard" who think that a Defender is the be all and end all of a All Terrain Vehicle..

Defenders are great vehicles - again I love them... Had them... Go misty eyed at them.

But not what you lot are romanticizing at all.

Enjoy your vehicles - they are great... But will never sell in volume...

I can get a decent dual cab, all mod cons, and dust and door seals. That will do the Cape, gun barrel etc no problems..

Take the blinkers off... I bleed Green but I'm not blind or stupid... I'm realistic... And getting old.

Skuilnaam

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Sport, I think you're getting this site confused with your day job of writing dialogue for "Home and Away".

Nobody is getting romantically misty-eyed about the leaky, noisy, overpriced rarity called the Defender. We would actually like to see it improved and promoted and supported. The rest of the market is well covered by the other models the factory has managed to scrape together over the years.

How well the Defender would sell will never be known. There just hasn't been the distribution and support. They would no doubt sell in volume, just as the noisy, heavy, expensive, horribly rough-riding Troopie does, if only the Defender was, you know, actually available.

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Originally Posted by Davo

Sport, I think you're getting this site confused with your day job of writing dialogue for "Home and Away".

Nobody is getting romantically misty-eyed about the leaky, noisy, overpriced rarity called the Defender. We would actually like to see it improved and promoted and supported. The rest of the market is well covered by the other models the factory has managed to scrape together over the years.

How well the Defender would sell will never be known. There just hasn't been the distribution and support. They would no doubt sell in volume, just as the noisy, heavy, expensive, horribly rough-riding Troopie does, if only the Defender was, you know, actually available.

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OK, play the man not the ball if you must.. :eek:

You have no facts to back up such wild claims...

And your Rose coloured Glasses are skewing your thinking...

LR used to market the Defender, hard... But only certain breeds of people like niche market vehicles.

Like all vehicle enthusiasts - generic doesn't fit - and a defender is an enthusiast vehicle.

Generics want ergonomics, seals, no leaks...

Enthusiasts want the traits that make a vehicle more than just a tool. They want the passion of the experience.

LR marketed that and couldn't grab the market share you refer to.

Even Toyotas Pov spec cruisers dont sell in volume compared to GXL spec..
Why? Because people want the comfort afforded as well.


As for expanding the vehicles appeal.

- Regulators on emissions etc say it must comply, no comply - no sell.
- Larger market forces (compared to our joke of a market) command what is done and what is not.. America & Europe rule this bit.
- To make a Defender costs far more than any other LR product. Its manually intensive, and expensive. To make it reliably built (fit and finish) would be its immediate demise financially.



**I've put several hundred kilometers on my vehicle(s) off road this month..
I'd suggest stepping back from playing CyberWheeler and go enjoy your vehicle.... :whistling:



Skuilnaam

Quote:

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Originally Posted by inside

Just some advice on developing the new Defender.

If you can't do this with the new one you have failed.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/im...012/04/160.jpg

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If you've got that much water in the back and didn't exceed the wading depth, then you have an OEM sunroof fitted!

Yeah, yeah, I think that by calling the rest of us "dreamy misty-eyed romantics" - or whatever it was - you started the man-playing a bit before my post.

The fact is, the market that you are so sure doesn't exist does, and it is owned by Toyota. Look up where I live, and that is the market that Land Rover doesn't bother with. There are literally thousands of Troopies and traybacks up here. They are simply everywhere. There's a fact for you! I went to a funeral here once, and there was a million dollars worth of LandCruisers there - all sales that Land Rover missed. They could have been Land Rovers, but the company just never bothered. Imagine if you couldn't open a newpaper or switch on the telly without seeing a Defender ad? Can you imagine that? It's laughable, and that's because we're so used to not seeing Defender ads.

It's got nothing to do with blinkers, rose-coloured glasses, dreamers, or romantic thinking, or with the passion of the enthusiast. In fact, I'm not incredibly fond of Landies, they're just the closest to what I want.

The company just don't make enough of them or sell them. Toyota did and does. If fact, when you think about it, a small company like Land Rover could have done quite well with something like the market share that Toyota has, compared to how massive Toyota is.

And "cyberwheeler"??? Come on, no name calling. Anyway, we only have about twelve paved roads up here. I test the suspension just doing a tip run. Geez.

All I am saying is there is no reason why Land Rover cant do a toyota and market like they do and take a giant slice of their market share if they build a vehicle that's competent, capable and reliable. The dont have to turn an iconic legend into a hairdressers car like the new fj cruiser, I have a mate who has one, capable, but not my cup of tea. It doesnt have to have all the mod cons, but then again, up where Davo is, most of them dont have them either. I think to automate the majority of the production line as is the Disco, Rangie and Freelander which up till recently shared a production line with the X Type Jag, would increase production to a point where they could keep up with any increased demand and customers would not get the ****s with waiting 3 and in one case on this forum 6 months for a vehicle. For a start, be proud of what you produce. A good vehicle, dealer back up, in your face saturation advertising and then build on a market share with the ones that want/need a few extra creature comforts with the Disco and also the double decaf soy mocha latte' set Range Rover/Sport clientele :wasntme: BTW, My eyes arent covered with rose coloured glasses either:cool:, their Mid Bronze Green if must know!;)

Cheers Ian