New Defender reliability?

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Originally Posted by wpalmo

107 S1 or 130 Tdci? Give me the 107 Series One every day. You are a lucky man Jason to own such a fabulous vehicle. I love Series One Land Rovers but I can see the attraction for the Tdci. I just think it is very poor for a vehicle that has been in production for over 60 years to end up at this point of it's evolution being as prone to annoying problems and dealer warranty claims as the Puma seems to be.

I do like the Defender because of it's heritage and strong visual links to the Series vehicles it has evolved from however I was extremely disappointed to read this thread. I don't think it is good enough to purchase a new vehicle in 2013 and have the sorts of problems that Puma owners are listing in the above comments. I don't read Toyota and Nissan forums but I would be surprised if owners of new Japanese 4wd's are consistently experiencing these types of issues with their, "still under warranty", vehicles. Happy to be proved wrong though.

It must be costing Land Rover a small fortune to fix these issues under warranty! Hopefully the last run of the current shaped Defenders have these recurring problems sorted out.

Regards Warrick.

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yep Warrick I sometimes think LR would be hanging out to finally move defender to a robot built platform. In 2013 there isn't any real excuse for so many failings, and repeated one at that sometimes. But parts made in second world factories, assembled in first or second world production lines does seem to have it's problems. You would think a diff is worth fixing, not just replace it. The supply price is reflected in the actions of new Land Rover.

I dont read Japanese forum either, but I work with a whole gamete of tradies with all sorts of 4x4s. Sadly they have their fair share of warranty issues as well. Though it does seem to far less of them. It does strike me, and I've said it many times, at least LR fix the warranty claims, where as for many of these Jap brands, it's quite hard to get it resolved. Well that has been my experience in both caps regarding ownership; and watching on at work.

The days of building a long lasting product are well and truly gone. The required sophistication to comply with theoretical environment targets. Selling all sorts of wonder and adventure for the modern buyer locks them into a cycle of upgrading after warranty as few are prepared to try and hang on to such a vehicle ex warranty. It's been happening to Range Rovers for years, more recently Disco 2 onwards, it's now Defenders turn.

no money and no future in building cars that are simple, last for 50+ years, and can be fixed by the owner. Apparently the market doesn't want it.

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Originally Posted by LandRoverFan

This is my first post on this forum, hi all.

Since seeing my first series LR when I was a kid I've been infatuated with them. Due to practicalities etc I've never owned one and instead have been a swb Suzuki owner for the last 20 years. I love the zuke but as I get older I'm lusting for a bit more space and feel that a 90 would be a great next vehicle for my needs.

I've always felt that you need to be willing to get dirty hands with a LR which suits me fine. I'm not concerned at all about minor isms but major failures are a concern.

I like the idea of new but will be buying used when the time comes. I have been thinking of a 90 between 2000-2009. What are the models in this age bracket like and what should I keep an eye out for?

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99 to 06 are 2.5lt Td5's, LR designed motor, BMW owned company
07 to 11 are 2.4 Tcdi (puma) Ford motor, Ford owned company roughly. Tata bought Ford out 2010 I think.
12 to 13 are 2.2 Tdci (puma) Ford motor, Tata owned company.

As been mentioned Td5's have there own issues, like oil in the wiring loom for one. Most of the issues have been rectified by previous owners, and I don't know for sure if there many in the first place. Still good to have an idea before you by.

Tdci, well, basically the same truck as the previous models since 1983, but has a common rail donk and six speed box, and more refined in the cabin. Not a bad truck but unfortunately it has had it's share of build slackness here and there. Some have had very little, others have had quite a bit. Again it's most likely that it's issues have been sorted under warranty.

99-06 TD5 sounds like the go for me. How does oil get into the loom? Have these had the same diff and transfer issues?

Talking about Jap 4by's the 200 series LC had that problem of burning a couple of litres of engine oil before next services were due. It was that bad and Toyota could not resolve it that they said it was normal. Yada yada yada.

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2,2 2012, black barn 110 - 22500 km without mistake, it is much better than my ex. 2,4 2007 DCPU but it is still car for entuziasts.:D

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Originally Posted by LandRoverFan

99-06 TD5 sounds like the go for me. How does oil get into the loom? Have these had the same diff and transfer issues?

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up to 02 Defers ran a Salisbury diff. A solid performer in all applications except lacked a little bit of ground clearance, hence the nick name "plough".

from 03 to current Defer's have had a P38 diff. It's not terrible, but not as well designed as the previous. From what I understand it's the spacing between the bearings for the pinion gear that are a bit close. This allows the gear to flex under regular heavy loads like towing or hard touring or use with a full rig perhaps.

Both diffs will strip flanges on the wheel, and wear axels if not lubed regularly or run in oil. This has been a LR thing since the idea was coined on a beach.....back in 1947.

Transfere cases in Td5 and Tdci are soild, it an LT230 for reference.

As for the rest of your Td5 queries, do a few searches like oil in loom, egr blanking, Td5 overheating.

A decent Td5 can fetch up to 28K I think, and like most things you get what you pay for.

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Originally Posted by newhue

Both diffs will strip flanges on the wheel, and wear axels if not lubed regularly or run in oil. This has been a LR thing since the idea was coined on a beach.....back in 1947.

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Though it really only became a problem about the time the rear discs arrived on the defenders, some dill thought a seal had to go on the axle, then we all had to remove it to let the oil onto the spline.:D

was looking at buying either a 2010 Defender 90 or a brand new MY13 model the other day. the doors on the 8000 Km old 2010 model were loose fitting and closed with a worringly hollow sound, often taking two attempts to shut.

the almost brand new demo car's were much easier to shut and 'seemed' to close more cleanly.

has the defender's build quality been on the increase.

surely 8000 km wouldnt be the difference.

Just a thought.;)

My 40 + year love affair with Land Rovers is becoming a little strained since buying a new 2012 Defender. I’ve always owned and loved at least one Land Rover since I learned to drive, and have 5 at the moment.

I’ve been following this thread and had decided to bite my tongue. I didn’t want to appear a “knocker or naysayer”, but today was the last straw.

All these problems have been resolved under warranty, before 5000km

Leaking coolant- screw cap replaced
Leaking coolant- plastic tank replaced
Corrosion in chassis- repaired and painted
Rear tailgate jammed shut- latches adjusted
Front output shaft seal leak- solved after 2 attempts
Gaps in bodywork- mastic applied
Rear diff growling- diff replaced
Seat belt recall- bolts replaced
Front torsion bar fell off (almost a showstopper) - nuts and bushes replaced
Gearbox removed to solve oil leaks
Hose clamps incorrectly installed- hose replaced and clamps re-orientated (this common fault was detected before failure with advise from this forum)
Damaged wiring resulting from gearbox work- repaired
Loose/missing nuts bolts sills- replaced
Front hub leak- solved after 4 attempts (2 seal replacements and 2 new hub assemblies)
HCPU tub not mounted squarely and pounding on rear of cabin –adjusted

None of these were showstoppers, not stranded, but were inconvenient. I have traveled over 2000km alone delivering the vehicle to the dealer 350 km away (700 round trip) for this warranty work.

But today a show stopper-stranded

Engine symbol on dash and then limp mode.

Checked under bonnet, fluids all good, no overheating, no hoses fallen off that I could see.
Called the 1800 LR assist line and put me through the lock - unlock sequence without clearing the fault. They advised it needed transport to the dealer for diagnosis. Also advised driving in limp mode voids warranty
3 hrs later the flat bed arrived for the long journey of shame.

Hopefully we will iron out the problems during the remaining 2 years warranty and it will be as reliable as my 1997 TDi 300. She has her old spot back in the shed tonight!

Grapplers post :o :o :o

I'm sincerely sorry for you, I hope this comes good. Keep notes of everything days, dates, dealer comments etc. then pass it onto LR Australia.

I might start checking over mine, you have me worried.

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