2013 Defender 90. Long term vehicle?

Steane,

That's exactly what I was trying to convey, except you've said it ever so much better than I. :)

Warrick, I'm aware of the people that have had issues, I've been following those threads as well. My gripe is with people who respond to threads such as this one with "don't touch it with a barge pole" normally followed by "Get a isuzu, 300tdi - thats what I have." When I was looking to buy my defender these sort of people nearly stopped me from doing so. It got to the point where I would follow Puma owners until they stopped so I could ask them if they had, had the diff, clutch, etc issues. They all responded "No" and none of them were members of AULRO. I'm subsequently really glad that I didn't listen to the naysayers as there is a large smile on my face everytime I jump in the girl and drive off.

On the flipside of that coin I've been paying attention to the likes of Newhue, Grappler, etc with their problems as there is a lot to learn there, a fair bit of what goes wrong with the PUMA's is preventable in hindsight, things like rubbing hose clamps. In fact when I picked mine up I had a long list of items I wanted checked in the pre-delivery based on what I had read here.

I have a 2010 Puma with 60,000kms on and haven't had any show stopper problems. I get it regularly serviced...in fact a bit over serviced!!..and the dealer has been great, often finding small things I haven't even noticed and fixing under warranty.

In the last 6 months I have crossed the country twice from Brisbane to Perth and Brisbane to Eighty Mile Beach, with as much dirt and as little bitumen as possible. Of the 20,000kms, approx 14,000kms was on dirt with much of that in the various deserts and remote areas... Plenty Hway 3 times, Anne Beadell Hway, Connie Sue Hway, Centre Line Track, Gary Junction Rd, Kidson Track, Talawana Track, Gary Hway, Section of the Gunbarrel Hway, Mary Hway, Sandy Blight Junction Rd and a couple of small sections of the CSR.

2 weaping swivel joints, leaking rear transfer case seal, oil leak on rear diff inspection plate, smashed passenger side mirror, a couple of shock bushes ( non LR) and a couple of staked tyres.

Before I bought mine I heard all the usual rally round the flag stuff....the last REAL Defender was made in 10BC rant, rant , rant.

Mine doesn't leak water through the roof, the diffs have been fine, the gearbox is sweet. Yes the gaps in the door seals let water in..and out but I have been pleasantly surprised at how little dust gets in.

Whilst I have done lot of mods to it, I have deliberately left the engine, drive trains and suspension standard with just some MTZ's and OME shocks.

Had 3 Patrols and I'll take the Defender any day.

Comparing a new vehicle to a 20-30 year old vehicle is not a fair comparison.

When that 20-30 year old vehicle was new - I bet it had issues too! And perhaps MANY MANY more - The late 70's and 80's were a bad time for quality out of the UK, many people will have forgotten that! It's just that in those days there was hardly any warranty, and you either fixed it yourself or lived with it.

I think all of the issues raised here in the forums are raised because people are passionate about the vehicle. These issues exist in all vehicles, it's just that other vehicles are so dog turd common, no one bands together to discuss the problems.

For example I think if you compared the issues found here with the issues that HSV ute owners have been through things here are quite tame!
Who remembers the LS1 floppy liner issues!

Iv'e lived through 3 brand new defenders, and this last one is damn near perfect. That's why I use it as my daily driver and NOT my 30 year old Range Rover and NOT my 10 year old Defender. Those old ones are nice and are extremely special to me - but are no patch on the new Defender. I like driving them - but I know that if I had to pay for someone else to maintain them to the same level of performance I expect of a new vehicle, it would take all of my money and then some. I live with weeping seals, with things that are not perfect because I know what it takes to fix them. But I won't tolerate those issues on a new vehicle. So that's why the comparison is invalid.

Have not had any experience with Puma engine Defenders yet. However, I wonder if in the longer term motors and attached 6 speed gearboxes from wrecks of other vehicles that use them will in future be a good proposition for repowering both Pumas and older Land Rovers as there will probably be plenty of them around. I note that new Mazda utes as well as Ford Transits appear to use what is basically the same motor. Of course it would be necessary to find out all the little changes and get necessary bits and pieces to make them fit and function properly.

From observation Defender owners tend to talk about their vehicle problems more than Toyota/Nissan owners which leads to the perception that they're not as reliable. I was looking at getting a Hilux last year as a second car...after doing research and talking to owners I came up with a list of problems longer than what people claim with the new Defender! Point being, even the "tough" Hilux has its share of problems...doesn't mean it's not a good vehicle. Same with the Defender.

I have a 1992 200Tdi Defender with 428,000kms - it has never left me stranded and I've done some remote trips. The only major issues I've had are: transfer case (I smashed the centre diff because I forgot to engage it off road - but even then was able to drive 1,200km home!), gearbox (at 420,000 and was still able to limp back in low range), clutch master and slave cylinders and the clutch pivot fork. Starting this year I will be doing a full rebuild on this Defender with a view to keeping it for another 20+ years as our main expedition vehicle.

If we had the spare cash we'd go buy a new Defender today (and keep the old one!) with no hesitation. For now we've got a Hyundai i30 diesel (great little car btw) as a second car, but will be looking at a new Defender in the next couple of years.

What am I getting at? In my opinion the new Defenders are great. As others have said before your experience will depend a lot on getting a good dealer for any warranty issues to be fixed properly. Once any initial issues are sorted a new Defender is the best off the shelf 4wd you can buy and should give you easily 10+ years service.

Hope that helps! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mox

Have not had any experience with Puma engine Defenders yet. However, I wonder if in the longer term motors and attached 6 speed gearboxes from wrecks of other vehicles that use them will in future be a good proposition for repowering both Pumas and older Land Rovers as there will probably be plenty of them around. I note that new Mazda utes as well as Ford Transits appear to use what is basically the same motor. Of course it would be necessary to find out all the little changes and get necessary bits and pieces to make them fit and function properly.

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I'm under the impression LR whilst owned by ford have done a fair bit of internal modification to the standard Transit motor. I can't recall the exact bits, but the oil pick up was one. It was altered so the defender can run happily of the angles a 4x4 often endures. You'd hope the same was done for a 3.2 in the Rangers.

I believe a poor oil pick up was one of Nissan's 3lt hang grade issues, amongst others.

Ive had my puma 90 for almost 9 months now, 16,000kms on the clock. .

I dont actually have it right now.. its at the dealership in townsville and has been fro over 4 weeks with no sign of them being any closer to getting it to even start!!
its been a nightmare for 4 weeks, and its not the first warranty job. .

you can read my thread about it all. .

I would still not have anything else and I still love my puma 90 regardless of this.

If you want one just buy one, no matter what you buy the chances of failure are the same.

you can go buy a new car, or you can buy a Defender which is like buying a new friend.

Leroy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leroy_Riding

Ive had my puma 90 for almost 9 months now, 16,000kms on the clock. .

I dont actually have it right now.. its at the dealership in townsville and has been fro over 4 weeks with no sign of them being any closer to getting it to even start!!
its been a nightmare for 4 weeks, and its not the first warranty job. .

you can read my thread about it all. .

I would still not have anything else and I still love my puma 90 regardless of this.

If you want one just buy one, no matter what you buy the chances of failure are the same.

you can go buy a new car, or you can buy a Defender which is like buying a new friend.

Leroy

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After the trouble you've had and you still wouldn't part with it, says something about Defenders. Might have to have a wander down to the stealers and see what the go is price wise.


Just out of interest, is the 2.2 the same as the 2.2 Ranger engine?

Some say Land Rovers have an Aura . the French say they have a Soul . I have traveld to many Countrys all over the world , if I see a landy I always make a point , if I can of talking to the driver , and taking a photo . My wife thinks i'm nuts , but i've met some lovelly poeple , I don't think other verhical owners do that . A new 90 smells nice .:)

I must have a different type of puma, between the two I have owned from new, I have been into some very remote areas, done some hardcore 4wding, clocked up 220+k between them and have never been let down. Some minor new car niggles that were sorted with little fuss. I drive my current ute everyday for work, loaded at around 32-3500kg gvm and do around 35,000km per year, most of it on rural roads, forestry tracks and construction sites...maybe I have a good one?