Thread: The Right Winch

Mike, have you looked at warns hi mount? They are ment to be pretty good all round. Maybe you all ready have a low mount bull bar?

Sorry mate, missed your last post. I don't know anything about them.

Would prefer low mount l think.
Happy to pay upto $1800.

Have seriously considered RUNVA. They have 10,000lbs ith rope for $649. I hear good things. But they are Chinese made? But not in same category as 'Aldi style' jobs.

I guess at the end of the day - if l need to winch out of trouble in Vic High Country l dont want a failure. Cause that will cost me $3000 in recovery fees!

Mike

Fair enough. Speaking of Chinese, aren't the tigerz or something ment to be ok? Are Ramsey or Superwinch still supported in Oz?

I've had a Tigerz....not impressed. Have one for sale in fact (10,000lbs w. rope).

Not sure re: Superwinch.

Mike

I hope that any of you out there about to purchase a winch don't believe the crap that these winch manufacturers say about the capacity of their winches.
For instance a Warn winch of 9500lbs cap.(4318kgs.) is just that, the maximum the winch will haul before it ****s itself or stalls. Fitted, with say a 9mm 7 strand IWRC winch cable with a Guaranteed Breaking Strain (GBS) around 4100kgs. (9020lbs.).
So if you want to buy a winch that will do the job, ignore what the maker says, he don't give a **** if you bust a cable and whip someone's head off.
When buying a winch the main consideration should be the Safe Working Load of the CABLE, which is 1/5 of the GBS of the cable. If you buy a 9mm cable the SWL will be around 820kgs. or 1800lbs, so the criteria for purchasing a winch is the GBS of the cable divided by 5 which is the Safety Factor (SF). the weakest link in winching is the cable go for the thicker cable everytime at least 11mm dia..
Just remember that the winch seller wants you to buy the big number winches and cables, but the numbers they advertise are at the limit of destruction, so be aware and ask what is the SWL or Working Load Limit of their winches and esp. the cable/rope, Regards Frank.

Mike, my guess a $1300 Warn is Chinese made and price pitched for people who want the name buy can't afford it. But that is only a guess.
I don't know much about Warn but the guy at work has watched 3 go up in smoke and has gone Hydro.
I have a Tigers 12000 cheapy at $800 with 11mm dyneema. Part of my reasoning was based on what Tank said. I rang their average network to discuss regular maintenance. Without letting him know what I had he went on a rather long spiel about the 10's are no good due to some design issue. The 9's are OK, but the 12's were good for what they are. As far as maintenance goes, it was just checking the seal on the solenoid box. I did this from new, but also carry a spare. At $59 it's not unreasonable insurance.

Originally Posted by Tank

I hope that any of you out there about to purchase a winch don't believe the crap that these winch manufacturers say about the capacity of their winches.
For instance a Warn winch of 9500lbs cap.(4318kgs.) is just that, the maximum the winch will haul before it ****s itself or stalls. Fitted, with say a 9mm 7 strand IWRC winch cable with a Guaranteed Breaking Strain (GBS) around 4100kgs. (9020lbs.).
So if you want to buy a winch that will do the job, ignore what the maker says, he don't give a **** if you bust a cable and whip someone's head off.
When buying a winch the main consideration should be the Safe Working Load of the CABLE, which is 1/5 of the GBS of the cable. If you buy a 9mm cable the SWL will be around 820kgs. or 1800lbs, so the criteria for purchasing a winch is the GBS of the cable divided by 5 which is the Safety Factor (SF). the weakest link in winching is the cable go for the thicker cable everytime at least 11mm dia..
Just remember that the winch seller wants you to buy the big number winches and cables, but the numbers they advertise are at the limit of destruction, so be aware and ask what is the SWL or Working Load Limit of their winches and esp. the cable/rope, Regards Frank.

Frank, I get what you are saying, but how often are we lifting the weight of our vehicle? To have a SF of 5, most of us would need a GBS of between 25-30k lbs so what dia cable would that be? Will it, within its safe specs, wrap around the small dia of the drum? And can you get a winch block for that dia?

Winching is dangerous. It comes down to good practice and common sense. As has been stated we arent competing here so time can be spent in the set up of recovery.

There are many many vehicles out there when loaded would be near 3000kg/6600lb. These rigs seem to be getting away with 9500/10000 lb winch set ups. Yes bad accidents have occured but alot of these were just plain bad practice.

I helped my mate recover his 7000kg/15400lb 4wd tractor that was bogged down to the axles and wasnt going anyware. Using his LR and a 8000lb pto winch with a double line pull and the vehicle chained to a big tree. It was enough with the tractor driving to help to get it out of the bog......

Safety is a big, important issue, but at what point do we need a 20,000lb winch? As you say that 9500 is the max the winch will pull....and only on the bottom layer of the drum. So if the cable is rated at the same then it should be safe if on the 2nd, 3rd or 4th layer as the winch should stall out right??

Im just saying there are alot of variables....

Speaking of cable, and since alot seem to go for synthetic rope over wire these days, where are the brakes in these electric winches? Are some inside the drum, causing heat issues with the synthetic rope?

Originally Posted by uninformed

Frank, I get what you are saying, but how often are we lifting the weight of our vehicle? To have a SF of 5, most of us would need a GBS of between 25-30k lbs so what dia cable would that be? Will it, within its safe specs, wrap around the small dia of the drum? And can you get a winch block for that dia?

Winching is dangerous. It comes down to good practice and common sense. As has been stated we arent competing here so time can be spent in the set up of recovery.

There are many many vehicles out there when loaded would be near 3000kg/6600lb. These rigs seem to be getting away with 9500/10000 lb winch set ups. Yes bad accidents have occured but alot of these were just plain bad practice.

I helped my mate recover his 7000kg/15400lb 4wd tractor that was bogged down to the axles and wasnt going anyware. Using his LR and a 8000lb pto winch with a double line pull and the vehicle chained to a big tree. It was enough with the tractor driving to help to get it out of the bog......

Safety is a big, important issue, but at what point do we need a 20,000lb winch? As you say that 9500 is the max the winch will pull....and only on the bottom layer of the drum. So if the cable is rated at the same then it should be safe if on the 2nd, 3rd or 4th layer as the winch should stall out right??

Im just saying there are alot of variables....

Speaking of cable, and since alot seem to go for synthetic rope over wire these days, where are the brakes in these electric winches? Are some inside the drum, causing heat issues with the synthetic rope?

You are completely missing my point, you said it yourself that winching doesn't always exceed the limitations of the equipment.
My POINT is that sellers of these winches are selling winches with a stall/destruction capacity that is higher than the GUARANTEED Breaking Strain of the rope.
A 9mm wire rope is GUARANTEED to BREAK at around 9000lbs, and that is when it is new and hasn't had it's guts ripped out by being run around the woeful excuses for pulley blocks for sale.
Now maybe never will the GBS of the cable be reached in a straight pull, but it only needs the driver of the bogged vehicle to make a mistake and overun the cable and suddenly slip back with a sudden jerk, loads can triple in these cases.
That's why Safety Factors are necessary because from the first use/abuse the cable is deteriorating.
Winch drums have the brake inside the drum (Hi-mounts usually have them external) and can get hot and Dyneema rope cannot withstand too much heat. When buying a winch take into account the Safe Working Load of the Cable/rope and you should have safe recoveries, Regards Frank.