The Right Winch

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Originally Posted by uninformed

Ok if you are referring to what is supplied stock Im not really sure. But usually the limiting factor is the tie bars across the drum. This makes a fixed drum height and I would have thought you will get more wraps of a smaller dia??

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From new a winch is normally supplied with 100' of 9mm wire, this leaves the drum about 75% full. As you say the limiting factor is normally the tie bars.

If you remove the supplied wire you will normally be able to replace it with 110' of 11mm rope before you foul the tie bars.

The main point being that you don't normally loose rope length for extra diameter.

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Originally Posted by uninformed

Where did you get your rope from? that price seems outragous, especially when compared to the prices of Amsteel blue from Custom splice and MasterPull's vairious syn ropes, both US companies...

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yeah it is outragous. I got it for a couple of hundred.. but I have seen it advertised for RRP. :confused::eek:

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Originally Posted by uninformed

Frank, If those pulley blocks are 50% too small, what about the drum dia? Most drums on recreational 4x4 winches are approx 75mm dia. My PWB ANCHOR winching blocks are 125mm dia....so it seems there may be some problems from the get go, or is there a difference between it being pulled tightly around the drum compared to around a rotating pulley?

FWIW, my winch blocks are max load pulling of 8 tonne, designed for upto 11mm dia rope and they are greasable.

A 250mm dia winch block is a big bloody thing to carry in ones recovery kit.

regarding wire rope, should winch cable have a core like rope? Is there a specific grade that is best? You mention 7 strand, how many strands in each strand?

newhue, I have heard the same re laying synthetic rope on the winch drum, through can not confirm or deny it as fact/best practice. Something about 3x dia of rope, space between each wind around drum.

Yorkshire_Jon I think you got that back to front mate. You are going to fit more length of smaller dia rope on a drum of given width and height.

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Any rope/cable that runs over a sheave/pulley or is used on a winch drum or Tirfor should have a wire strand centre core, the most common construction ropes in 4WD recovery equipment is 19/24 wires/strand and six strands around the outer and an extra 19/24 wires/strand in the middle, this is so the cable does not crush flat, like a 6 strand rope core cable would. General purpose cable has a rope core for flexiblity/lubrication, so only 6 strands with 19 or 24 wires in each strand.
The larger the dia. of a sheave pulley the less stress placed on the wire rope, I have only ever used my winch cable through a snatch block, to stabalise my self while driving out of a hole on a steep sideways slope. A mate ran the cable through the block, not knowing to run it with the lay of the rope and it broke a few wires and put permanent bends in my winch cable. I will post up some links for info Riggers guide and the Guttenberg book, otherwise I am going to wear out my fingers with all this typing.
Rope construction is described as first Wires, (19 or 24) then layed (left or right) into Strands, which in a winch rope are layed (left or Right) around a core strand of 19 or 24 wires, which gives you 7 Strands of 19/24 wires in ea. strand. It would be known as 7Strand, 19/24 IWRC. When you lay wire onto a drum it is coming off that drum in one direction, when passing through a pulley it is changing direction under load both sides, anyway give us a few minutes after I post and I will add the links for more detailed info, regards Frank.
http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/3/0/9/...-h/30983-h.htm
PS I don't know how to get the Rigging guide into the post, so if you wish to read it you will have to Google Workcover's Rigging Guide for yourselves.

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Originally Posted by newhue

That's pretty interesting Tank. I know my dyneema rope is crushed in all sorts of flat shapes. Quite often changing from flat horizontal to flat vertical but the rope is still kind of straight, or perhaps in its lay of the rope.

I was told don't wind it on all neat and tidy, for when winching the rope tightens under pull into it's spooled self and makes it very hard to pul out. So I loosely spooling it on with a bit of crossing over, but this chews up space on the drum and the rope crushes on the winch housings for the last 4 or so meters.

oohhh if life was simple, i wouldn't have to worry so much.

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I have had no experience with Dyneema ropes on winches, I would contact the manufacturer for the correct way to lay this rope on to a winch drum, I did hear something about laying it on in a cross hatch pattern, but not sure, regards Frank.

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Originally Posted by Tank

I have had no experience with Dyneema ropes on winches, I would contact the manufacturer for the correct way to lay this rope on to a winch drum, I did hear something about laying it on in a cross hatch pattern, but not sure, regards Frank.

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It doesn't matter how you spool it on, it will deform whichever way, but it is not detrimental to the rope.

Crows Nesting it on the drum (cross hatch pattern) is sometimes considered better by te competition boys because the rope never gets crushed inbetween adjacent ropes windings and is arguably quicker to spool back on as you dont nee to be careful when winding back in. On the flip side, using the crows nest approach wastes a lot of drum capacity and shortens the amount of rope you can spool on, especially if you are using 11mm instead of 9mm.

Hth
J

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Cross hatching Dyneema rope onto a winch is the most desireable. The reason being with a conventional spooling the Dyneema being so soft will wedge down into itself under load on the drum and then take all hell to spool out again!! :o Have had to hook onto a tree and reverse the quad to free it and that was on the quadbike after hauling a smallish strainer post!! So thats the main reason for cross hatching.

Cheers Scott

Hmm that swear filter is a funny little beast! :D

Rather than start a new thread I have a similar question to the OP. I (we) can get Superwinch LP winches very cheap - the 8500lb and the 10000lb via Amazon. I don't want a discussion on hydraulic vs electric vs pto, nor am I interested to hear the perils of buying a cheap winch vs moderate vs expensive.

I would love to hear from you though if you the think the 8500lb winch (I have a pulley and I'm not worried about its diameter either) would be sufficient for 5 minutes of winching/year for my Defender 90 Puma.

Thank you
Bob

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Originally Posted by Tikka7mm08

Rather than start a new thread I have a similar question to the OP. I (we) can get Superwinch LP winches very cheap - the 8500lb and the 10000lb via Amazon. I don't want a discussion on hydraulic vs electric vs pto, nor am I interested to hear the perils of buying a cheap winch vs moderate vs expensive.

I would love to hear from you though if you the think the 8500lb winch (I have a pulley and I'm not worried about its diameter either) would be sufficient for 5 minutes of winching/year for my Defender 90 Puma.

Thank you
Bob

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Yes it will.

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My Tdi has done everything asked with a Warn 8274 HM rated at 8500. Pat

Good to know. Hell for what I need incredible price under $400 NZD so tax free.