Thread: KM2's going, Advise on A/T LT tyres

Not speaking against the BFG AT's. However throwing it out there are the Pirelli Scorpians ATR (LT). They have a road orientated tread pattern and according to 4wd Action review a while back they scored top of class in braking & tyre noise and performed admirably in the off-road tests. I give the review weight on the premise that the Pirelli was a dark horse and not a sponsor.

The Yokahama Geolander also scored well in that test review by 4wd Action. Naturally the sponsor brands pipped the geolander in the ranking. If you ignore the summary comments and focus on the test results you don't get angry at the blatant bias.

I am planning on buying an AT tyre to run around on day to day and save my KM2's for play. After reading lots and lots about all the tyres, the BFG and Pirelli were head and shoulders above the others. A close second was the Michelin LTX AT's. I want a tyre that is road orientated but will hold up to punishment in the desert where MT's don't work as well as an AT.

my 2 bob's worth.

MLD

I have KM2 for off road and get the same light vibration from them. I prefer them on the dirt than the OEM tyres, they grip better. A few sheets of dynamat, some 1/2" HD foam and some OEM rubber mats and they quieten down a bit . On dirt roads, they don't make any extra noise at all.

I found the Pirelli Scorpion ATR very good on my D1 - great on the bitumen, good grip in the wet, no punctures as yet, very quiet and pretty good on sand, not so good in mud.

Tyres are the most important thing after brakes on a car. I find it strange how some people think how much mileage you get out of them is the most important, it should be the last thing on the list to consider after grip, performance, comfort, noise etc. Funny how you seldom here people saying :"I got 100,000km out of brake pads, they really didn't work so well after 50,000km especially in the wet and came close to eating the discs, but I wanted take them right to the limit to get the most out of them"

Been running Coopers for years in every desert and nearly all the outback tracks on the continent, mainly LT STs then STCs. Don't make STCs any more, only the STs and the Max. Put the Max on the back with to STCs still on front. In the SVX the only tyre noise I hear now is the STCs. Thinks Coopers may have done some sort of profiling to reduce noise.

However, there is this Cooper BFG thing same same LR Nisota, holden Ford you will have to make up your own mind.

Cheers

RF

I had muddies on my disco and changed over to Pirelli Scorpians AT roughly 12000k's ago.Been excellent tyre in the dry and wet and I got them at a good price.

cheers

Sadly, I can't yet comment on tyre performance on a Defender (cos I don't own one yet)... However, I did have a set of 16x8 steelies shod in BFG A/T's on my 80 series 'cruiser and when I sold that vehicle I transferred the wheels and tyres onto a GQ Nissan Patrol.

During that period I did lots of highway kilometres, gravel roads, sand driving and a bit of heavy mud. This use included several trips to Birdsville, Kangaroo Island, the Cooloola Coast and backwards and forwards along the Bruce, Pacific and Warrego Highways. I found it hard to fault the BFG's. They were long wearing, tough and functional. I only had one puncture (slow deflation) in all that time, and that was in the main street of Mackay when I picked up a stray coach screw through a gap in the tread.

I eventually re-shod the patrol with a set of Cooper ST-Maxx tyres, and I found them to be very quiet on road and very grippy on wet bitumen in particular. I didn't really get to give them much of a test off road, other than a bit of gravel driving (and I sold that vehicle with only about 11,000km on the tyres). However, I would be happy to try the Coopers again on a Defender (depending on comparative prices on other A/T's when I eventually buy mine).

Good luck with your decision,
Cheers
Nige

I've have now put the KM2's for sale, but I'm no closer on a choice for an A/T tyre.

Still looking for more feedback on the D697LT.
The Cooper ST Maxx look good but will I have the same characteristics as the muddies with them, tracking, forever balancing them, noise?

BFG AT's I've had before and am happy with them just thought they are an old pattern very old pattern, thought the likes of the D697LT might be a better option.

I looked into every one else's suggestions the Pirelli, Generals, Maxxis, could not find info on sidewall protection, so I'm assuming they are not a 3ply side, and confused to wether or not they are a LT construction.

The D697LT is a 10ply carcass with a stiff sidewall they don't advertise wether it's 3 ply or not, but they do emphasise on how thick their sidewalls are compared to the competition. They have one of the highest speed and load ratings in the A/T category. So I'm assuming they should perform quite well.

Any added comments are appreciated. Cheers.

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Babs, IMHO you've hit the nail on the head re. sidewall construction.

From recent posts I thought I should look at the scorpians but could find nothing about the sidewalls, and there is no way I would chuck $$$ at them without that info.

Likewise with the BFG AT's. AFAIK they haven't kept up with improved sidewall design, and misgivings I've long had about their tread pattern in some conditions stopped me using them in the past. AFAIK the AT was designed before Michelin bought BFG and took over the design of the tyres.

Don't fall for the sidewall propaganda. Sidewall strength and thickness is not only a function of ply numbers. Most manufacturers keep their carcass manufacturing process an industrial secret. Some are (rightly) proud of their construction and openly advertise it (e.g. Coopers ST Maxx/STT). Ply thickness is measured in denier (As per Coopers above, 2x2000 denier ply and 1x1000 angled denier ply = 5000 denier total). I have read unconfirmed reports that some BFG 3 ply are 3x1000 ply, so, just for example, a 3 x 1000 ply sidewall will be thinner and weaker than a 2 x 2000 ply sidewall (Perhaps thats the case with the Bridgstone Babs mentioned). Don't forget the original Baja Claw, which achieved an enviable reputation for toughness, has a one ply sidewall (which must be very thick and tightly wound). On top of the ply there is simply how thick the outer rubber moulding is, the quality and construction of the materials used, etc.

Heat build up is another factor as to why manufactures stick to 2 ply as movement in the tyre produces less friction (two plies rubbing together instead of three). Also, all denier being the same, three plies are not 33% stronger and more puncture resistant. Probably more like 10%, and that's being generous.

In short, although having a 3 ply sidewall is a good marketing tool, its not the be all and end all. Personally, I think all tyres should have their ply numbers and the denier of each ply displayed.

It will be written on the sidewall, somewhere, the plies of the tyre, but not the denier.

I learnt a bit about tyres when I was involved with tyre choice for my work fleet when the bosses got a bit worried about OH&S liabilities and I had access to and discussions with various tyre company engineers. I also have a tyre fetish.