Thread: So the 90 broke down again, with a mystery!

Originally Posted by fonfe

Look as much as I sympathise with you on that it is an expensive repair it still could be a lot worse. This may come across in some parts as harsh but its straight up truth and logic from a being in the trade point of view.

You really only have 2 options:
Keep the car at home, save up some money and have it fixed when you can afford it.
Or
Sell it as it is and buy something else.

I'd be very surprised if the dealer still has any of the sand.
I personally keep samples for MAX 3-4 days. My attitude being: if you wanted a sample you should of asked for one at the time of being told what the diagnosis was. I am NOT a storage depo and neither is my work bench. I come to work to diagnose cars faults, fix them when authorised and that's it. You don't expect a plumber to keep burst pipes so why expect me to.

If they have kept a sample, WTF are you going to do with it?? Send it to a lab and then what?!
"Yes mr......... We have tested the sample you have provided and can confirm for you that it contains, some limestone, some sulphuric rock and some common dirt which is predominate found in such and such a place. You bill for testing will in the post". Seriously wot are you going to achieve by knowing the type of sand it is?

Thinking the route of well it should of got past the filter the filter isn't fit for purpose really is a no brainer. The filter was never intended for sand. It's designed for SMALL particles that end up in a fuel tank, the odd bit of dust and some water. NOT a huge amount of anything you fancy putting in the tank.
For the law people it there I can tell you LR reply before you even ask them
LR "do you take the vehicle off road sir"
You "well yes of course it's a defender"
LR " do you have the servicing done according to the arduous service schedule"
You "erm no? The dealer carries put my services as per normal"
LR "sorry sir but the normal routine services are for mostly road use vehicles"

Aka if you go offroad a lot things need to be changed more regularly. Hence the Arduous service schedules. You honestly don't expect an air filter to last as long on an offroad vehicle as it will n a city going defender do you? No different for any filter.

Those of you that are reading this post and are worried.....it's very very simple. You don't need to add extra filters, gizmos and gadgets. Just change you fuel filter more often.

And finally in regards to "if sands got past the fuel filter its land rover problem"
Actually no it's not at all. It's YOUR problem.
Its down to YOU to prove the filter faulty not them to prove its not.
The simple fact that the filter isn't designed to stop sand that shouldn't be in the fuel tank to start is clear cut removal of any blame towards LR.
If the filter blocks up to extent it has then obviously there is a chance that the suction from the high pressure pump will cause the filter to break down.
But like ive already said its not down to LR to prove they aren't to blame its down to you to prove that they are which unless you have a serious amount of money to waste on trials and tests across a broad range of several filters good luck with that thought.

Leyroy obviously my whole post is not aimed at you, it's obvious you know what the score is but if I don't say what I've now said the thread will just fill up with more people thinking that you have a chance at getting LR to pay which you simply do not.
MAYBE. They will pay some towards your costs as a goodwill gesture but that's down to them to decide. Good luck with it

Most of the above is incorrect.

People who simply roll over and ignore the rights given to them by consumer laws are a salesman's/manufacturer's dream.

Or do you work at a dealership???

I suggest you go back and read the pdfs I uploaded on diesel fuel standards and allowable dirt.

Originally Posted by isuzurover

Most of the above is incorrect.

People who simply roll over and ignore the rights given to them by consumer laws are a salesman's/manufacturer's dream.

Or do you work at a dealership???

I suggest you go back and read the pdfs I uploaded on diesel fuel standards and allowable dirt.

Of course I do. You don't get LR factory training working for Fred in the shed.
I've worked in 2 uk dealers and 2 Aussie ones.....don't see what that has to do with anything other than I see problems with LRs more than your average tech does.

If you think what I've said is incorrect then please by all means, have the sample tested and good luck with court - your going to need it!

fonfe,

My car has less than 20,000 kms on it and has been serviced 4 times and already had the entire fuel system replaced once, according to Land Rover Australia as the Townsville service manager would not return any of my phone calls after I asked for some simple answers that he was not able to provide[such as what work has been done to my car, and why does no one ever call me back] what work was actually carried out I still do not know. and then most of that work re-done here in Brisbane again anyway.
The car has id say around 4000kms on the fuel filter that was in it[I can get exact km's if needed] (now replaced again)

my intent was not to have the sand analysed but if possible take a look at the filter to see if the sand has made it to the 'outlet' side of the filter like the dealer has said to give me a better idea as to if I am looking at water damage alone or actual damage from sand as I can see sand being more detrimental than the water (I could be wrong here though)

also if I can get a accurate volume of sand pulled from the tank I can see how that stacks up against the information IsuzuRover has provided.

Leroy

Fonfe may or may not be correct in all the details, but some of it seems wrong to me.

Either way, the attitude is pretty indicative.

just read a few more comments,
I am not out to get Land Rover. . I have no plans to 'take them to court'
I simply am trying to find cheaper possibilities to fixing my car that I may be able to afford in the short term rather than the couple of months+ it is going to take me to be able to afford the proposed repairs, is there anything wrong with that?

My chances of getting LR to take this as a warranty job are slim as the fuel was 'contaminated' and with my last experience with LR and warranty they said if the fuel was contaminated then the last fuel system issue I had would not have been a warranty job, but the fuel was tested and found to be fine then before they would proceed with any work.

If I can get Land Rover to subsidise repairs or take it as a warranty job then great, but in order to do that I have to know how much sand was in my tank. something the dealer is yet to give me an accurate amount on and tbh I have left it a bit late to pursue this avenue.

Leroy

Leroy,

I don't think you put the sand in the fuel. So it either got there through a design fault, contaminated fuel or malicious intent. The last two are the reasons you have insurance. Just because you cannot identify the contamination source should not mean your insurance company walk away from you. If my car is involved in an accident and the other party drives off, I might lost my excess, but I'm still covered. So if Land Rover claim there is no design fault - get that in writing - and then the onus should be on your insurance company. I know you've said they won't play ball, but I think you should persue that avenue as well. Give them a call and say that it's not a mechanical failure - its a series of faults caused by an incident, and that Land Rover have confirmed that it's NOT a mechanical fault because they rejected the Warranty. The cause was an accident (Fuel Contamination) either whilst you were driving it - or whilst it was parked up somewhere, that has caused your current mechanical faults.

So get a letter from Land Rover stating that the warranty coverage was rejected because the vehicle was damaged by an malicious fuel contamination. then take that up with your insurance company.

Leeroy!!!

Mate, you have had a terrible run of luck! I dont know how you can remain so calm...

As mentioned get everything in writing! I would be requesting very detailed reports. Even if all you get is their findings in writing to take it up with your insurance.

I had a problem with my breather on my previous 110 Puma, but it was a problem with dumping fuel out onto the ground after a fillup... I ended up extending the breather myself and the problem did not re-occur. Probably nothing similar to your case.

I know where you take your truck for warranty, my family and I have had 5 vehicles go through that dealer, and I couldnt trust them as far as I could throw them.

Anyway, Im not really much help, just wishing you all the very best of luck, mate.

Did I read that you drove the Defender through a river crossing well above the specified LR wading depth?

Creeks and rivers are full of sand / silt, water may have entered the fuel filling cap if it was submerged. If it was a dirty creek I'm pretty sure silt could get through also.

I appreciate that this was months before the issue, but I would be suprised if the two events are not related.