Puma ABS scared the ........ outof me!

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Originally Posted by Tombie

What? Nothing in my post was wrong.

I never said it will stop quicker... Or in a shorter distance.

Emergency situations are more often about avoiding a collision that stopping dead... This is where ABS shines.

I've seen the trials - and done several courses and training events... And on dead flat loose surfaces, travelling straight ahead you are spot on that the Non-ABS version (all other factors being equal) will stop shorter.

It's not very often in the world that situation presents through.

The non-ABS will head low side, slide uncontrollably, not be steerable and likely slam into whatever you wish to avoid.

Marble rock levels the playing field even further.

Autos and ABS offroad work absolutely fine... I've done everything offroad in both manual and auto with and without ABS and wouldn't be without it, especially on fast loose surfaces.

As for "Rally Cars don't have it..." They did... Once.
The governing body then removed its use from the regs...

You forget when you ask me have I seen or felt the difference that I spend large portions of my life driving all sorts of terrain offroad - primarily now in ABS equipped Autos!

I asked my colleagues this same question and not one has had an issue with ABS offroad.


You can hate your ABS offroad all you like... Or can learn to work with it... No different to learning how to drive to suit a vehicles suspension set up.

Enjoy :)

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You stated 99.9% of opinions ABS is better than no ABS off road What about real life experience . I guess its your 99.9% of opinion:p
Back to you :angel:

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Originally Posted by Tombie

Autos and ABS offroad work absolutely fine...

You can hate your ABS offroad all you like... Or can learn to work with it...

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yep

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Originally Posted by rangieman

You stated 99.9% of opinions ABS is better than no ABS off road What about real life experience . I guess its your 99.9% of opinion:p
Back to you :angel:

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99.9% of *opinions*??????? 99.9% of the time was my post.

What about real life experience? Mate, if me and my work teams covering thousands of kilometres a month, all offroad isn't enough experience then I guess there isn't enough.

We drive formed and unformed tracks, climb escarpments and steep descents...
Have to avoid Cattle, Sheep, Native fauna at speed..
Drive in all weather conditions, on sand, mud, clay, gibber, marble rock, gravel... (Only exclusion is ice/snow).

:D

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Originally Posted by inken_dave

OK, I can take advise, but let me put it to you this way: If I take my 1958 series 1 up the exact same slope, I can almost get to the same point, and the series one will do what I want it to.......STOP....EVERY TIME

My query, after all thoes saying it is my driving style, is that the Defer with ABS/TC is not obeying my inputs as I want! The series 1 does, as does every other 4WD I have every driven up this particular slope!

The other point to mention is this is a general access track, and I don't want to go backwards!!! I'm not taking my Landrover out for a weekend stretch, it is actually working and is almost in low range every day! If it wont get up there, due to rain, load or whatever, then it gets winched up!

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Like the S1, the Defender is just a tool... Albeit a tool with some new bells & whistles which you just need to learn how to use.

ABS doesn't work below a threshold (can't remember off-hand what that threshold is) but your revving & wheel spinning is taking it above this threshold so when you stamp on the brake, it thinks you're sliding. If you let the revs drop a bit before stomping on the brake, you stand a better chance of getting your desired result... Being progrssive with the brake will help too.

That said, in your scenario, you're going to be better off popping it into reverse, back off to the point where you regain traction and stop there. Let's face it, even if you locked the wheels, the car is still going to slide backwards until it has enough traction to stop. All I'm suggesting is you do so under a more controlled manor.

M

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tombie

What? Nothing in my post was wrong.

I never said it will stop quicker... Or in a shorter distance.

Emergency situations are more often about avoiding a collision that stopping dead... This is where ABS shines.

I've seen the trials - and done several courses and training events... And on dead flat loose surfaces, travelling straight ahead you are spot on that the Non-ABS version (all other factors being equal) will stop shorter.

It's not very often in the world that situation presents through.

The non-ABS will head low side, slide uncontrollably, not be steerable and likely slam into whatever you wish to avoid.

Marble rock levels the playing field even further.

Autos and ABS offroad work absolutely fine... I've done everything offroad in both manual and auto with and without ABS and wouldn't be without it, especially on fast loose surfaces.

As for "Rally Cars don't have it..." They did... Once.
The governing body then removed its use from the regs...

You forget when you ask me have I seen or felt the difference that I spend large portions of my life driving all sorts of terrain offroad - primarily now in ABS equipped Autos!

I asked my colleagues this same question and not one has had an issue with ABS offroad.


You can hate your ABS offroad all you like... Or can learn to work with it... No different to learning how to drive to suit a vehicles suspension set up.

Enjoy :)

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Totally agree Mike.

Probably worth emphasising that some systems are better than others in this respect. For example the abs in my Disco1 was dangerous on the dirt and you were better off without it, whereas in the D4 its brilliant and I would have it over a non abs system any day.

As for "rally cars don't have it", this is nearly true. Most don't. However, during the arms race years of the World Rally Championship they ran very sophisticated electronic systems. As Mike pointed out they were banned in WRC cars a few years ago, along with traction control, launch control and electronic diff controllers due to the costs. These cars were being driven by some of the best drivers on the planet, but still the electronic systems were better.

Cheers,
Jon

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Originally Posted by camel_landy

Like the S1, the Defender is just a tool... Albeit a tool with some new bells & whistles which you just need to learn how to use.

ABS doesn't work below a threshold (can't remember off-hand what that threshold is) but your revving & wheel spinning is taking it above this threshold so when you stamp on the brake, it thinks you're sliding. If you let the revs drop a bit before stomping on the brake, you stand a better chance of getting your desired result... Being progrssive with the brake will help too.

That said, in your scenario, you're going to be better off popping it into reverse, back off to the point where you regain traction and stop there. Let's face it, even if you locked the wheels, the car is still going to slide backwards until it has enough traction to stop. All I'm suggesting is you do so under a more controlled manor.

M

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Very good post,too many people will not use their brains or adjust to different experiences,the point about spinning the wheels so the ABS thinks your going faster is a good one,maybe spinning the wheels is the reason your not making it to the top?. Pat

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Originally Posted by PAT303

Very good post,too many people will not use their brains or adjust to different experiences,the point about spinning the wheels so the ABS thinks your going faster is a good one,maybe spinning the wheels is the reason your not making it to the top?. Pat

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Thanks! I'll remember to engage my brain when I engage the diff lock!!