2016 'Defender'

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Originally Posted by MrLandy

Indeed. ...Interesting isn't it? But the evolution of the pop riveted beasty won't fit automated production lines (the real reason for Defender end of production IMO). Plenty of solid ladder frame chassis vehicles have evolved and still meet design regulations, have lots of airbags, etc.

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I do believe that LR have been reported to say that making the current Defender meet requirements (grow in a bunch of airbags, crash cans here and crumple zones there) is just "too expensive". So nothing interesting for the grist mill there.

Any manufacturer worth feeding would have done the business case : Cost to fix what we have now VS cost to start over. Then make it a cost/benefit equation and weigh in the benefits, the value add, for the "starting over" case.

I am happy in the thought that maybe some sensible people who know how to build off-road machines might have done the math and decided that starting with a clean sheet may cost a little more than fixing the current beast - but look at all the cool ways we can make it BETTER by doing so.

If they avoid reinventing the wheel by pulling in some parts of other platforms (disco running gear for example) then good on 'em.

Using parts from the disco bin doesn't have to mean it's going to be a rebadged D4.

A "Pragmatic, functional, capable, durable" modern Defender could still be built on a Disco, Range Rover, or Jaguar base platform. (Well maybe not Jag).

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Originally Posted by tact

I do believe that LR have been reported to say that making the current Defender meet requirements (grow in a bunch of airbags, crash cans here and crumple zones there) is just "too expensive". So nothing interesting for the grist mill there. Any manufacturer worth feeding would have done the business case : Cost to fix what we have now VS cost to start over. Then make it a cost/benefit equation and weigh in the benefits, the value add, for the "starting over" case. I am happy in the thought that maybe some sensible people who know how to build off-road machines might have done the math and decided that starting with a clean sheet may cost a little more than fixing the current beast - but look at all the cool ways we can make it BETTER by doing so. If they avoid reinventing the wheel by pulling in some parts of other platforms (disco running gear for example) then good on 'em. Using parts from the disco bin doesn't have to mean it's going to be a rebadged D4. A "Pragmatic, functional, capable, durable" modern Defender could still be built on a Disco, Range Rover, or Jaguar base platform. (Well maybe not Jag).

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I'm betting there would be some loud voices in LR management that would have been pushing to drop the defender/series style design and move on to more lucrative markets. It's a bit like people wanting to keep building the Kingswood after the Commodore (WB ute did last a couple of years but was replaced).

Even the 76/78 series Is not hand built like a defender. And I thought Toyota were dropping this line of vehicles.

I think the new Defender will be more like a D4 under the skin. It will have either a mono or T5 design.

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Originally Posted by MrLandy

If you look at the spy pics of the new D5 and Disco Sport they are clearly cannibalising the Range Rover Sport.

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The Discovery Sport is a repositioned Freelander, it's in a different league to the Range Rover models and appeals for different reasons. As for Discovery, it has always been a lower cost alternative to the big brother Range Rover so I'd expect it to look like a relative. The RR is a $200k+ car, so the Disco plugs the gap for those wanting a large 4WD without selling a kidney.

The Defender is different. I think this article explains it better than I could.

A new Discovery: Land Rover's 2016 Disco spied, plus info on next Defender and more by CAR Magazine

"If the RR and Disco sit closely together, McGovern says the new line-up of Defenders will stretch out the Land Rover brand. 'Discovery is getting closer to Range Rover,' he says. 'But the Defenders, when you see those coming, they'll really bring clarity to the three-family scenario. They're out there, a working tool, probably closest to the original Land Rover heartland, but still relevant.'"

OK guys, lots of talk, lots of discussion, lots of ideas, SO,....I have a question.
Based on vehicles that are currently in production and available on the Aussie market, which vehicles do you think that the "New" Defender should, or will have to, compete with?
Pickles.

Where are the spy shots (not the DC100 mock ups) of this new machine?

Given the demise of the Australian car industry there will be pressure to derestrict the import of vehicles from overseas. The obvious impact will be the introduction of US style pickups at a (maybe ) competitive cost. Dodge RAM 2500 and 3500 will announce pricing in November, this is a joint venture between Ateco and Walkenshaw and is sourcing vehicles direct from Dodge in the US. Ram Trucks Australia and New Zealand
There are also rumours that the 78 serries vehicles may be replaced by a Tundra variant as well. Chrysler Australia are pushing to get access to a factory built 1500 Ram as well so that will also add variety to the market.

I think that in three years the 4wd market may be a very different place particularly around the dual cab ute sector.

Regards,
Tote

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Originally Posted by Pickles2

Based on vehicles that are currently in production and available on the Aussie market, which vehicles do you think that the "New" Defender should, or will have to, compete with?
Pickles.

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Good question. The 70 series, FJ Cruiser and Wrangler/Rubicon come to mind, but I think Land Rover will be aiming higher than that.

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Originally Posted by Tote

Given the demise of the Australian car industry there will be pressure to derestrict the import of vehicles from overseas. The obvious impact will be the introduction of US style pickups at a (maybe ) competitive cost.

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It isn't restrictions keeping cars like that out of Australia, it's the fact that GM/Ford/Chrysler aren't seeing a big enough market outside of the USA to produce them in RHD at the factory. As long as there's a third party involved doing the RHD conversions, they're always going to be hugely expensive.

Yes, it makes a huge difference if they're "Factory RHD".
Ya've only gotta look at the soon to be sold here Mustang, which when sold as an import was $100K+, but with Ford Aus selling 'em, they're around $65K.
Pickles.
NB: also, whilst talking price, in addition to my original question, where do you guys see the "New" Defender being priced?

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Originally Posted by Pickles2

Yes, it makes a huge difference if they're "Factory RHD".
Ya've only gotta look at the soon to be sold here Mustang, which when sold as an import was $100K+, but with Ford Aus selling 'em, they're around $65K.
Pickles.
NB: also, whilst talking price, in addition to my original question, where do you guys see the "New" Defender being priced?

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G Wagon
70 Series Toyota
Nissan Patrol
Wrangler
F100 ?

90/110/130 again or thereabouts

$15,000 above current models

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Originally Posted by Pickles2

Yes, it makes a huge difference if they're "Factory RHD".
Ya've only gotta look at the soon to be sold here Mustang, which when sold as an import was $100K+, but with Ford Aus selling 'em, they're around $65K.
Pickles.
NB: also, whilst talking price, in addition to my original question, where do you guys see the "New" Defender being priced?

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Same price as current models,Toyota can't sell '76 and '79 series vehicles priced from 60K in a country full of die hard followers so LR won't go there. Pat