What to buy a 300tdi or a Toyota?

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Originally Posted by PAT303

I've spent more time in the bush than most and never had a sensor,solenoid,valve,air bag,ECU,common rail injector blah blah fail and leave me stuck in the Discovery,L322 Range Rover or TDCi defender.I have helped,towed or given a lift to lots of people in reliable pre electric vehicles thou,quite a lot actually. Pat

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You are not helping my case against my missus :) My case has just got a lot weaker if she reads this, grumble grumble..
Chris
Edit.. what did cheer me up no end today is out of curiosity I checked the price of Defenders in the UK (I used to live in the UK 12 years ago) and we are paying the same or cheaper for used Defender's which is a big surprise. Here in Aus most used cars are a lot more expensive than they should be so it looks like another plus for the defender :)

Seriously I'd just buy a TDCi,you can travel Oz in it for the next 10 years and still get half your money back when the time comes to sell. Pat

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Originally Posted by PAT303

Seriously I'd just buy a TDCi,you can travel Oz in it for the next 10 years and still get half your money back when the time comes to sell. Pat

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Second the motion. My neighbour across the road has a v8 90 and a 300tdi 110. He spends a lot of time and money on both vehicles. Both look immaculate on the outside and given the number of times one or both are in the workshop for mechanical work they should be marvels of mechanical reliability under the skin. And he NEVER takes them offroad...

It's coming to two years I have had my TDCi 2.2 MY2013 110DC. I don't get to take it into the Malaysian jungle as much as I wish but it has seen some "hardcore" trails/trips, some easy trips, and did 4 straight days fetching tonnes of emergency supplies into mountainous jungle communities from a base also in the jungle after Malaysia's worst floods in decades hit northern/eastern states.

It has also done dozens of 4-5hour high speed highway runs (KL to Penang. KL to Singapore. KL to northern state trail heads). Happy to cruise above the national 110km/h speed limit, even with 3/4t of rice in the tub). (Try that in older landys, toyos, et al).

It hasn't missed a beat. (It has had warranty services to fix aircon and an intercooler hose in the first year but never broken down stranded).

(...and as I wrote prior - listen to your wife. Happy wife... Happy life...)

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Originally Posted by tact

Second the motion. My neighbour across the road has a v8 90 and a 300tdi 110. He spends a lot of time and money on both vehicles. Both look immaculate on the outside and given the number of times one or both are in the workshop for mechanical work they should be marvels of mechanical reliability under the skin. And he NEVER takes them offroad...

It's coming to two years I have had my TDCi 2.2 MY2013 110DC. I don't get to take it into the Malaysian jungle as much as I wish but it has seen some "hardcore" trails/trips, some easy trips, and did 4 straight days fetching tonnes of emergency supplies into mountainous jungle communities from a base also in the jungle after Malaysia's worst floods in decades hit northern/eastern states.

It has also done dozens of 4-5hour high speed highway runs (KL to Penang. KL to Singapore. KL to northern state trail heads). Happy to cruise above the national 110km/h speed limit, even with 3/4t of rice in the tub). (Try that in older landys, toyos, et al).

It hasn't missed a beat. (It has had warranty services to fix aircon and an intercooler hose in the first year but never broken down stranded).

(...and as I wrote prior - listen to your wife. Happy wife... Happy life...)

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What are doing to me guys, somebody must be on the older Landy side?
I have not told her yet she is winning, and she asked me today (again) if I had rang the dealer re the test drive of the new Defenders. Err no..
What is the weakness of the Puma Defenders am I still going to be happy in 300,000km?
How much better are they than say a good td5?
On the plus point I will soon have a defender but not as convinced as my missus is that it should be a new one..
Chris

Sorry, I read the whole thread in the past few days but cannot remember... Have you not driven a new 2.2 TDCi (Puma) yet?

Just go on and do it. Have a drive. Keep looking for that perfect low km TD5 or 300TDi.... and even if you only find a "decent" one within say a week - drive it. Then go back to the dealer and test drive the Puma again.

Chalk and Cheese. The driving experience. Specially on the highway at 110kmh. Make sure you get a chance to drive both on a highway for a bit. But even rowing (old models) or gliding (Puma) through the gears around suburbia will let you form some important driving impressions.

So yeah you have hit on a couple of key points...
Will the Puma be too hard to maintain yourself?
Will there be a risk of the electrickery breaking down and leaving you stranded?

Maintenance on a Puma seems limited to changing consumables (brakes/tyres) and lubricants - and greasing the various joints, bearings, drive flanges. None of these tasks will flummox you more than an older model. All are pretty much in common with an older model. (i.e. you don't have to polish the nuts or grease the circuits of a sensor or ECU)

Breakdown risk. I had to do some heart searching, and of more relevance/value - searching the forums.... to satisfy myself on this point before I bought into the legendary ("they always breakdown") Land Rover marque.

Lets unpack that. For 50yrs it seems there is a strong view amongst the high priests of the general global offroad community - that Land Rovers are unreliable. (not saying this "wisdom" is justified!)

Think about it: In the main. To which models can this "ancient wisdom" be referring? Yes - older (or ancient) models is the correct answer.

So what about newer models. Just more of the same old ("unreliable"?!) Land Rovers? Or has Land Rover done some things different.
Yes - Land Rover has done some things different.

So whats the guts on these newer models. What I learned is:
- you may get a good one brand new, or a bad one brand new.
- if you get a bad one brand new all the bad things will be replaced under warranty, perhaps two or 4 times!, until its good, in the first year.... after that you get a good run.

(Illustrating the last point.)
Seek and ye shall find: Tales like "I went through 3 diffs before 30,000km. The 4th was the treat - now put 300,000km on it and no issue. (Oh yeah!... the diffs are common to older models too!)

You will find some have had issues with electrickery that is not in common with the older models. But after warranty fix(es) in the first year, pretty much bob's your uncle.

So I bought one. Am putting as many miles on it as I can manage (not a lot) in these first two years, without going alone into remote places - intention being that if anything is going to break I want it to happen under warranty.

Just one Puma OWNER's & DAILY DRIVER's thoughts.

Some more observations:
One of the big things you will be told by technophobes who tremble whenever water is near electrickery: You can't take a Puma near water. All the sensors and electronics will fail on you and suck your bank accounts dry.

Before you click this link some disclaimers:
- I don't advocate others do this
- I knew what I was doing and took my risk with my car - willingly and cognisant of possible consequences and not a long walk home.

Ok so click the link. Its a video made public on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v...type=3&theater

Notes:
- in the latter stages of the video you can see my headlights, previously shining on the water surface, obviously go completely underwater.
- it is easy to measure what that depth was (around 1M)
- from the driver's side window I could see the water was about halfway covering the engine air intake
- about 2" water leaked into the cabin. (I stop on exit to open a door and let it out).

No damage. No problem. Just a pain in the posterior getting all the grass & sticks out of the grill/radiators afterwards.

Oh yeah... I hosed out the interior with a garden hose when I got home too. I think you can do that with older models also. :twisted:

I'm with "Tact" (earlier post). Try both then buy a Puma.

I have had series Land Rovers and a County V8. After a long break I wanted another Land Rover, a Defender to be more precise but I was worried about all the hype about reliability issues. After much consideration I took the view; "keep em serviced and it'll be as reliable as any other make". So I purchased a MY2013 Puma and love it. Fantastic off-road like all Land Rovers, but much better on road than previous models. It is not over powered by any means but the match between engine and gearbox is great and it is just a pleasure to drive.

I recently travelled to Brisbane from Wagga Wagga to visit my Brother. He has a Isuzu 85 County which he uses as a workhorse for his building business. He has had at since the early 90's and its like his best friend. After driving the Puma, he wants one but it pains him as what to do with his best friend.

In the 25+ years he has had the County, he has never been shy to spend money on servicing and repairing it when required. It has therefore been very reliable and is still mechanically sound though the interior and bodywork show it has worked hard. I thoroughly enjoyed having a drive of his County but much preferred my Puma.

Will my Puma still be on the road in 30 years? I plan on finding out. I expect it will be if I follow my Brother's example of timely servicing.

Ok I have a plan.. I will under duress call the dealer and book the test drive for when the 110's come in (few weeks from memory he was expecting some). A friend tells me he knows someone with a Defender, he was not sure if it is a 300tdi or a td5. I will give him a ring and see if I can have a drive, if I can I will take the missus too, grumble grumble..
Chris

Couple of weeks... That's good. It will give the folks who don't own a Puma plenty of time to take my posts apart. :p

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Originally Posted by cafe latte

What are doing to me guys, somebody must be on the older Landy side?
I have not told her yet she is winning, and she asked me today (again) if I had rang the dealer re the test drive of the new Defenders. Err no..
What is the weakness of the Puma Defenders am I still going to be happy in 300,000km?
How much better are they than say a good td5?
On the plus point I will soon have a defender but not as convinced as my missus is that it should be a new one..
Chris

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Chris,I'm a Tdi tragic,love mine to death but the TDCi is better,the deep first gear and off idle torque leaves the earlier power trains behind.The only problem mine has had was the adapter shaft and axle flanges,both easy fix's,look at Slunnies thread on his Td5,3K for a head gasket change or 5K if the head is stuffed,one off the reasons I never upgraded from the Tdi. Pat