The philosophical 2018 Land Rover Series VI / Defender / 'Icon'...

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Originally Posted by jon3950

Land Rover identifies the Marque's core values as:
Individualism
Authenticity
Freedom
Adventure
Guts
Supremacy

So you may be closer than you realise, but I think you're assigning some values to the brand that aren't really there. The values you perceive have come about because the Defender has not been updated for so long and is now an anachronism in the modern world. I get it though - its a big part of the reason I've just bought one.



Not at a price you'd be willing to pay.

The most significant vehicles in Land Rover's history have all been somewhat revolutionary, think the original Land Rover, original Range Rover and the Discovery 3/4 which has brought a whole raft of new technologies to mainstream 4wds. Now with the Range Rover they have moved to aluminium monocoques - something of a revolution for this type of vehicle.

This is the way the new Defender should head. It needs to be revolutionary, which probably means a lot of people won't like it.

Cheers,
Jon

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I don't care if it's revolutionary, but it needs to keep its individualism .
That means , unlike the rest of its range it needs to be adaptable to what the customer wants to do with it. ;)
Not just make a pretty city pack, but make it easily modified . So if you want a long distance tourer , easily (preferably factory option) fit a long range tank and water tank, like the current model. If you want a rock climber, easily lift and fit larger tyres, preferably 35in plus, like the pre puma defenders.
Landrover have gone the euro route of having a performance version of their RR and RRS, which should also be continued through the entire range like bm/merc, but they ignored the other end of a more off-road focused version like several U.S companies have.

I think the word Land Rover is using to describe the Defender is to say it must have 'durability', meaning it must last a long time.
The Defender and its earlier versions have certainly lasted a long time. Will the Discovery and Rangie last as long? Too early to tell. Disco. 1s are now dirt cheap, but a lot are being scrapped.
I'm encouraged by statements by LR company people about the new Defender being designed to use commonly-available parts to make it easier for them to be kept on the road in the future. That seems smart.
Obviously it has to be a workhorse, available in multiple configurations and adaptable for many purposes. It also needs a range of engines and transmissions.
Personally, I wouldn't like to see LR try to make it look like a Discovery, with the body styling becoming more oriented towards sleekness than practicality. The Defender's boxy body is a big plus, as is the square rear of the D3-4, I reckon.
Really, if you combine a light but strong aluminium chassis with a roomy and flexible body, a simple coil suspension, the current JLR engine and transmission range and a practical interior, JLR should be able to nail the Defender pretty well, if they don't try to go too trendy.
Durable and practical is what is needed.

When you ask a 20 to 40 year old lay-man(or woman) on the street what a Land Rover is, I can guarantee they image conjured up in the heads of the majority will be that of the Discovery. So successful is the Disco and so dominant it is on the road that it is definitely what comes to peoples minds when Land Rover is mentioned... for the older generation then I reakon it's the series models, ones on movies and in books of decades ago that comes to mind.

But that leads me to think, how many Discos has the legend and legacy of the Series and Defender sold? In the 90s, probably the majority. People wanting the intrepid, go anywhere prestige of the Land Rover badge (tied to the Series and Deefer) but having all the modern comforts and whatnot. Now in 2016 the Disco stands on its own and sells itself.

So, I think there are two paths JLR can go down, and they may actually end up going two defender versions that fit both.

One would be in the sleek city SUV style and only release in 90 and 110 style configurations. Basically a slightly smaller, tougher looking Disco 5. Great off road and on the highway but by no means a workhorse, high payload capability is traded in for a comfortable ride. It will fit into the look of the current LR and RR range and compete with the Prado and Padjero.

The other would be tied much more closely with it's roots in the Series 1, a workhorse. Come in wagon versions but aggressively chase down the Agricultural and Commercial market with a range of tray back, dual/single cab options. Basically try and compete once again with Toyota and the 70 Series and get a slice of that massive market.

Timing is perfect as Toyota has suffered with QC and the Hilux and 70s Series cruisers aren't held as in high esteem as they once were for reliability and toughness and have lost ground in that market.

I'm very biased as i drive a 130, but I think the 130 is closer to the original philosophy of the Series 1 than the 90 or 110. It's a workhorse through and through and built for that purpose almost solely, you wouldn't buy one just to be a showpony, that's just impractical. If JLR don't offer an equivalent of the 130 and only have short wheel base versions for the new Deefer, then that will be the biggest departure from the original philosophy than any other design aspect as they'll be resigning the new Defender to being a passenger vehicle only, not a workhorse.

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Originally Posted by Bobby D

One would be in the sleek city SUV style and only release in 90 and 110 style configurations. Basically a slightly smaller, tougher looking Disco 5. Great off road and on the highway but by no means a workhorse

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Toughness doesn't need to come at the expense of comfort these days and I certainly don't believe that a Defender has to cripple its owner to be true to its origins.

Common platforms can be configured in endless different ways to suit a specific buyer. It isn't a case of the next Defender being either a rugged workhorse or a comfortable adventurer - there's every chance they'll offer both in a family of Defender products.

If they make the new defender like the original it will bomb,if they make the new defender like the original but fit it with better insulation,better ventilation,roomier seating,auto option and with 130kw/450Nm under the bonnet it will steal the market. Pat

So, a Discovery then Pat? :wasntme:

Puma is only an engine.

Not a vehicle.

I have a Puma.

to add to all the hyperbolising about the new defender and Pats last post , British Offroad will give you 140kw and 450nm now from your 2.2 Puma engine.

Jaguar give you 170kw from it.

so theorising Pat , the new defender could easily have still use the 2.2 Puma.

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Originally Posted by gusthedog

Case by case there may be differences. Some may have realised early on but others would be unaware. But after you spent that much on a leaky, dusty car with bad air-conditioning, you soon become captured :D. It's that first morning after a heavy rain and you find the passenger footwell full of water that it starts to sink in. But then you've spent so much money getting the car and apart from "insert problem here" it's a really great 4wd. Then before you know it, your subconscious forces you to love the car. Because if you sat back and actually thought objectively for a moment and realised that you'd spent all that hard earned on a loud, uncomfortable car that some psychotic designer into S&M designed the handbrake location for, you'd probably have an episode....:D Pricey

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Ha ha ha. lol Well said

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

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Originally Posted by ramblingboy42

to add to all the hyperbolising about the new defender and Pats last post , British Offroad will give you 140kw and 450nm now from your 2.2 Puma engine.

Jaguar give you 170kw from it.

so theorising Pat , the new defender could easily have still use the 2.2 Puma.

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Hahaha, they couldn't be so stupid...


Could they...?