Daft Question, why 130 Defender (used) over Mahindra pick up new?

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27th August 2015, 10:31 PM
85 county

i did a few months in a Mahindra bouncing around Pakistan. that unit had 280 klms on the clock, but the speedo had stopped.

also spent a couple of years with a GW ( petrol) in russia. drove to Vladivostok and back twice, 1 winter one summer trip. i had no issues with ether.

i think the only two deciding factors are, weight you wish to load it up with = Mahindra, ride and handling =GW
28th August 2015, 04:59 AM
Homestar

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackdef90

Yeah if it was only the injector issues with the cummins engines I wouldn't have bagged them out. That was only one of the issues we had with them.
I could give you more examples of repetitive failures, eg water pumps shafts snapping and the same pumps the casings cracking. These things weren't a one off they happened numerous times. These type of constant failures imo indicate ****e quality.

The marine spec engines are wound right up and are not as reliable as their on road engines. Consider the C series engine - when installed in a truck, generally running between 250 and 350HP, but the marine spec version is over 600HP. It's not surprising they **** themselves....

We run a lot (1,000's) of Cummins in our fleet of gensets and they are a solid engine. The bigger K series stuff (19 litre and up) is the best stuff they build (and unbreakable) and what they have built their reputation on. The K50 is pretty much the standard in a lot of Mining applications worldwide.

Some of their smaller stuff is also very good - B and C series. The Foton runs the ISF engine which is also actually not a bad little donk but isn't as refined as other small 'car' diesels. The Fotons do drive well and start at just over $20K up to $30K for the 4x4 dual cab with all the fruit - it even comes with tyre pressure monitoring as standard in the top spec.

If I was in the market for a cheap work ute, I would seriously consider one.
28th August 2015, 05:05 AM
Homestar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chops

I"ve got a mate who works on trucks, and he has a similar opinion on them at the moment. However, I would'nt think that would be a deal breaker, otherwise we wouldn't buy our LR's. Don't know about boats, but trucks run hard, I guess its all in how you treat them :confused:. Myself, coming out of the motor trade, we quite often had suppliers that had made stuff ups, which in turn caused us grief, made us look bad.
Buying new would be a major advantage in that respect too, as warranty would "hopefully" catch anything bad that may happen.

Yep, the current VGT Signature with Catalytic Converters are truly awful - they had just about ironed out the issues with the earlier (pre EGR) engines then started modifying them to suit the tightening emissions laws which makes them run hotter and more prone to failure.

CAT had similar issues a few years back with that twin turbo fiasco which forced them out of the on highway market altogether.
28th August 2015, 07:43 AM
cafe latte

Quote:

Originally Posted by bacicat

The marine spec engines are wound right up and are not as reliable as their on road engines. Consider the C series engine - when installed in a truck, generally running between 250 and 350HP, but the marine spec version is over 600HP. It's not surprising they **** themselves....

We run a lot (1,000's) of Cummins in our fleet of gensets and they are a solid engine. The bigger K series stuff (19 litre and up) is the best stuff they build (and unbreakable) and what they have built their reputation on. The K50 is pretty much the standard in a lot of Mining applications worldwide.

Some of their smaller stuff is also very good - B and C series. The Foton runs the ISF engine which is also actually not a bad little donk but isn't as refined as other small 'car' diesels. The Fotons do drive well and start at just over $20K up to $30K for the 4x4 dual cab with all the fruit - it even comes with tyre pressure monitoring as standard in the top spec.

If I was in the market for a cheap work ute, I would seriously consider one.

I had a google and it does seem the Foton is a good ute for the money, hmmm.. More choice and more thinking I think..
Chris
28th August 2015, 09:07 AM
Grumbles

Foton.......look carefully....no Traction Control, no ESC and open diffs front and rear...and they come at a premium price for what they are.
28th August 2015, 12:30 PM
PAT303

Quote:

Originally Posted by 85 county

i did a few months in a Mahindra bouncing around Pakistan. that unit had 280 klms on the clock, but the speedo had stopped.

also spent a couple of years with a GW ( petrol) in russia. drove to Vladivostok and back twice, 1 winter one summer trip. i had no issues with ether.

i think the only two deciding factors are, weight you wish to load it up with = Mahindra, ride and handling =GW

A lot of people bag GW but I had one for 12 months in Kalgoorlie and it never missed a beat,a couple around the corner from me back traded an unreliable Hilux for a TATA ute 12 months ago and except for the A/C that was fixed under warranty they are very happy with it. Pat
28th August 2015, 07:14 PM
Homestar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grumbles

Foton.......look carefully....no Traction Control, no ESC and open diffs front and rear...and they come at a premium price for what they are.

$21K for the base model, and $30K for the top of the range version - I wouldn't call that premium pricing, I think you are talking about the Hilux... :D

Oh, and apart from the base model 4x2 single cab, they all come with an LSD rear end and they do all come with ESC (or EBD in this case) which is mandatory for all new cars in Victoria. The top of the line $30K model also comes standard with tyre pressure monitoring, Bluetooth, full electrics, cruise control, leather seats (well the inserts), rear parking sensors, etc. I think they are good value for money and they drive quite nicely. Not sure who you've been talking to, but their website shows all this clearly and as I noted before I have 2 friends with them, and I've been right over them and driven them.

Sound like a bit of misinformation from Mahindra. :D
28th August 2015, 08:28 PM
jackdef90

Quote:

Originally Posted by bacicat

The marine spec engines are wound right up and are not as reliable as their on road engines. Consider the C series engine - when installed in a truck, generally running between 250 and 350HP, but the marine spec version is over 600HP. It's not surprising they **** themselves....

We run a lot (1,000's) of Cummins in our fleet of gensets and they are a solid engine. The bigger K series stuff (19 litre and up) is the best stuff they build (and unbreakable) and what they have built their reputation on. The K50 is pretty much the standard in a lot of Mining applications worldwide.

Some of their smaller stuff is also very good - B and C series. The Foton runs the ISF engine which is also actually not a bad little donk but isn't as refined as other small 'car' diesels. The Fotons do drive well and start at just over $20K up to $30K for the 4x4 dual cab with all the fruit - it even comes with tyre pressure monitoring as standard in the top spec.

If I was in the market for a cheap work ute, I would seriously consider one.

bobcat, the engines I'm referring to were the qsK(not sure exact model) 16 cyl quad turbo gensets. They were run as gensets on a diesel electric (no prop shafts just motor driven thrusters) 50m long rig tender. They were really bad , they had them on the sister ship aswell, same deal same issues. I've got no faith in cummins.
28th August 2015, 09:01 PM
Homestar

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackdef90

bobcat, the engines I'm referring to were the qsK(not sure exact model) 16 cyl quad turbo gensets. They were run as gensets on a diesel electric (no prop shafts just motor driven thrusters) 50m long rig tender. They were really bad , they had them on the sister ship aswell, same deal same issues. I've got no faith in cummins.

It would be a variant do the K50, but yeah, I have heard these don't do well on ships for some reason. When I worked at Cummins, the Marine section said they only got one sale in that size for every 20 CAT's so there must be something in that. As an on shore genset package, you can't beat them, but we only run the twin turbo versions - rated to about G4 - just under 2000HP. We have units with over 20,000 hours on them that have never needed touching. The quad turbo would be a G8 rating or something like that, pushing out a lot more ponies.
28th August 2015, 09:45 PM
cuppabillytea

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackdef90

Yeah if it was only the injector issues with the cummins engines I wouldn't have bagged them out. That was only one of the issues we had with them.
I could give you more examples of repetitive failures, eg water pumps shafts snapping and the same pumps the casings cracking. These things weren't a one off they happened numerous times. These type of constant failures imo indicate ****e quality.

One of the boats I drive at work has a Cummins in it. The other a 671. They both go all day and all night 24 Hr operation. No dramas with either much, That Cummins was US built in the 80s. The GM also but I think It's giving up it's Ghost.

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