Thread: Defenders on "Car Sales."

Originally Posted by Greg4427

Bingo!

Just saw the above on CarSales for $100K OMG ha ha they can't be serious! It's even got 8,000Km's on it. Where to next?

That's a very ambitious Audi dealership. I suppose next to a Q7 it might look like a bit of a bargain? Who knows

Originally Posted by Andrew86

Maybe because it's a nice place to visit? Are Defender drivers not allowed nice things too? I'll be sure to pack a bag of mud to throw over myself when I'm next out for a coffee, just in case someone thinks I'm not rugged enough for my car

In all seriousness though, and to bring things back on topic, the high prices we're seeing in Australia and around the world aren't because of the sellers (ie. supply). They're demand driven. Blame the people paying these prices, not the ones asking them. It has very little to do with who does and doesn't have a beard.

I hope it's designer mud, you don't want to devalue your investment.

Originally Posted by Andrew86

Really? I've found the Defender community universally friendly and I wouldn't call anyone I've met both online and in person a zealot (including new 2.2 owners). We're all enthusiastic about our little trucks, but I don't see how that's a bad thing. I'm sorry to hear you haven't had a similar experience. If you're referring to me, I'd gladly buy you a beer and see if I can't change your mind about that.

Really! But nowhere did I state that the Defender community wasn't friendly, so I'm not sure where you pulled that line from. Wasn't me...I would have felt it

A zealot is a person who is fanatical and uncompromising. Are you sure you haven't come across one or two of those in this very thread???

I'll take the beer though, but would prefer a red

Originally Posted by Andrew86

I'd be interested to see a source for the 300 vehicles sold if you're willing to share. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm genuinely interested in this sort of thing.

VFACTS is the source. I'm pretty sure they are the only source of vehicle sales data. Any figures you hear around the traps will have originated via VFACTS data.

Feb 2016 - 148 Defenders sold
March 2016 - 124 Defenders sold
April 2016 - 21 Defenders sold
May 2016 - 8 Defenders sold
June 2016 - 8 Defenders sold

There will be more sales. My local dealer has a brand new 90 sitting out the front today.

Originally Posted by steane

Really! But nowhere did I state that the Defender community wasn't friendly, so I'm not sure where you pulled that line from. Wasn't me...I would have felt it

A zealot is a person who is fanatical and uncompromising. Are you sure you haven't come across one or two of those in this very thread???

I understand what a zealot it, but I wouldn't call anyone I've met either radical or militant in their love of all things Defender. All Defender drivers are a tiny bit mad, and certainly enthusiasts, that's why we all wave at each other. To suggest that the misty-eyed Land Rover enthusiast only came about when the 2.2 came along is a bit silly.

Originally Posted by steane

Feb 2016 - 148 Defenders sold
March 2016 - 124 Defenders sold
April 2016 - 21 Defenders sold
May 2016 - 8 Defenders sold
June 2016 - 8 Defenders sold

Thanks. I was looking for VFACTS data but couldn't find anything more recent than January that didn't require a paid subscription. Still, 150 odd cars a month is hardly a flood given we buy well over 1 million cars a year.

Cheers

Originally Posted by Andrew86

I understand what a zealot it, but I wouldn't call anyone I've met either radical or militant in their love of all things Defender. All Defender drivers are a tiny bit mad, and certainly enthusiasts, that's why we all wave at each other. To suggest that the misty-eyed Land Rover enthusiast only came about when the 2.2 came along is a bit Silly

You sure? Cos you were suggesting it had something to do with being less than friendly, which of course it doesn't. Being a zealot isn't necessarily connected to being militant either, although the original Jewish zealots no doubt found themselves in the odd punch-on...or two.

So to confirm, when I used the word zealot, I was referring to fanatical passion for the Defender and an uncompromising approach to defending that passion.

Now if you haven't come across that here yet...

And sorry...but I strongly believe that there is a new misty eyed enthusiast attached to the 2.2. You might think that's silly but the buyer demographic changed in the last few years.

There are/were people buying 2.2s that will never take them off-road, wouldn't know where to look first when it inevitably breaks down and for them it's "an experience" or a case of "I've always wanted one and this was my chance". NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT, so don't leap to put words in my mouth, it's just an observation.

In comparison the vast majority (less so with 2.4s) of all pre 2.2 deefers were bought to work and use off-road, which is why it is so difficult and now expensive to find a truly good older example to buy.

Getting back to carsales...the point we are labouring is that I am sure many of these people who bought 2.2s as emotional (misty eyed...) purchases, will reach the point where they've experienced enough and will sell. It will happen over the next two years or so, as finance contracts wind down, and the dwindling tax advantage of the purchase aren't enough to make up for the clonks, clunks, heavy steering, jerky throttle and family risk exposure.

As far as values go, I have some fixed ideas on this and believe what we are seeing at the moment will alter to a degree, but what I believe is already manifesting if Carsales prices are actually a guide. If Defenders were Porsches then I think the Puma will be the 996. One to check back on in 10 years time...

Originally Posted by steane

You sure? Cos you were suggesting it had something to do with being less than friendly, which of course it doesn't. Being a zealot isn't necessarily connected to being militant either, although the original Jewish zealots no doubt found themselves in the odd punch-on...or two. So to confirm, when I used the word zealot, I was referring to fanatical passion for the Defender and an uncompromising approach to defending that passion. Now if you haven't come across that here yet... And sorry...but I strongly believe that there is a new misty eyed enthusiast attached to the 2.2. You might think that's silly but the buyer demographic changed in the last few years. There are/were people buying 2.2s that will never take them off-road, wouldn't know where to look first when it inevitably breaks down and for them it's "an experience" or a case of "I've always wanted one and this was my chance". NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT, so don't leap to put words in my mouth, it's just an observation. In comparison the vast majority (less so with 2.4s) of all pre 2.2 deefers were bought to work and use off-road, which is why it is so difficult and now expensive to find a truly good older example to buy. Getting back to carsales...the point we are labouring is that I am sure many of these people who bought 2.2s as emotional (misty eyed...) purchases, will reach the point where they've experienced enough and will sell. It will happen over the next two years or so, as finance contracts wind down, and the dwindling tax advantage of the purchase aren't enough to make up for the clonks, clunks, heavy steering, jerky throttle and family risk exposure. As far as values go, I have some fixed ideas on this and believe what we are seeing at the moment will alter to a degree, but what I believe is already manifesting if Carsales prices are actually a guide. If Defenders were Porsches then I think the Puma will be the 996. One to check back on in 10 years time...

Hear hear

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There's a 90 for sale at a local Hyundai dealership.

Called in to have a look and noticed a BMW 1M for sale also.

Now, I can't see that either of these vehicles has been traded on a new Hyundai. Pure pricing speculation IMHO on two cars that are seen to have some interesting values on the used market at present.

Originally Posted by Daz7

There's a 90 for sale at a local Hyundai dealership.

Called in to have a look and noticed a BMW 1M for sale also.

Now, I can't see that either of these vehicles has been traded on a new Hyundai. Pure pricing speculation IMHO on two cars that are seen to have some interesting values on the used market at present.

There is a tidy but well used 2.4 Puma single cab tray back at a Ford dealer in Adelaide. They have $38k (from memory) on it, is advertised on Carsales. I was looking at buying that exact car at a dealer in Berri at the start of this year for $24k. Needless to say it hasn't sold yet. The Adelaide dealer has wet their finger, stuck it in the air and made up a price. It's a 2.5 hour drive from Berri to Adelaide and I can't fathom how any vehicle can have its value increase by $14k in that amount of time.