The "New" Defender, ...Your Thoughts?

Let's not forget that JLR has invested half a billion GBP in its Ingenium 2L turbo diesel that has only recently started its life. They're going to want to get a decent return on that investment before replacing it with alternative technologies. It makes a lot of sense for it to be at the heart of the next Defender.

I'm sure electric vehicles are on their roadmap, but I think 2020 is too soon for it to be in a volume seller like the Defender is intended to be. I wouldn't be surprised if we see some sort of electric-hybrid technology appearing in the Range Rover fleet in that time frame though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dervish

Having the motors unsprung would have them shaken to bits, surely. Hitting a pothole could be an expensive mishap. Not only that, but you'd need gear reduction in four points as opposed to two - with the associated weight and expense.

---

There are really no 'bits' in a brushless DC motor to shake apart. At least, much less so than a mechanical drivetrain.

DC motors are capable of extremely high torque from a standstill, thats why they are used on ball mills and other high starting torque equipment. Unlike AC induction motors which are relatively low in starting torque and need to be loaded correctly to be efficient and have good power factor.

'Pancake' motors have a large diameter which greatly increases the torque that the rotor can put to the shaft. They really are designed (and will only get better) specifically for the purpose.

Dont forget, in new 'Defender' you'd (hypothetically of course) have 4 of these motors working together, and no transmission losses to sap the power away.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrew86

Let's not forget that JLR has invested half a billion GBP in its Ingenium 2L turbo diesel that has only recently started its life. They're going to want to get a decent return on that investment before replacing it with alternative technologies. It makes a lot of sense for it to be at the heart of the next Defender.

---

Exactly why I think that a Diesel Electric Defender is plausible in a couple of years when it comes out.

It would make it a perfect vehicle to be compatible to full EV sometime in the future when the Ingenium has run its course.


Sent from my ZTE T84 using AULRO mobile app

Personally, I think the talk of electric powered Defenders is still a little fanciful.

Realistically, even if the launch has been delayed until 2020, 4 years to launch something totally new is way too little time. If something radical and game changing was available they would have it on the D5 for launch soon.

My view is that it will be a hotchpotch of parts from the existing parts range, and they are just quibbling about the overall look (the much more straightforward sheet metal bits). By the time they've done a couple of years of modelling, then prototype building, then getting tenders and contracts arranged for the buy in parts, 6 months of testing in the Arctic Circle and the Outback, then getting tooling and ramp up arranged, 2020 will be here.

So I doubt it will be a radical change at all, but a cut down (or lengthened) D4 with a dowdy frock on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beery

Exactly why I think that a Diesel Electric Defender is plausible in a couple of years when it comes out.

It would make it a perfect vehicle to be compatible to full EV sometime in the future when the Ingenium has run its course.


Sent from my ZTE T84 using AULRO mobile app

---

This is what should happen, agreed Beery.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sheerluck

Personally, I think the talk of electric powered Defenders is still a little fanciful.

Realistically, even if the launch has been delayed until 2020, 4 years to launch something totally new is way too little time. If something radical and game changing was available they would have it on the D5 for launch soon.

My view is that it will be a hotchpotch of parts from the existing parts range, and they are just quibbling about the overall look (the much more straightforward sheet metal bits). By the time they've done a couple of years of modelling, then prototype building, then getting tenders and contracts arranged for the buy in parts, 6 months of testing in the Arctic Circle and the Outback, then getting tooling and ramp up arranged, 2020 will be here.

So I doubt it will be a radical change at all, but a cut down (or lengthened) D4 with a dowdy frock on.

---

...but I reckon you're right Sheerluck. It aint gonna happen. IF there is a new Defender it will be a botched D4, because the designers can't be arsed. This is particularly evident given what the new D5 looks like. Hmm a rebadged D4. Yup sad to say, Defender really is finished.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrLandy

...but I reckon you're right Sheerluck. It aint gonna happen. IF there is a new Defender it will be a botched D4, because the designers can't be arsed. This is particularly evident given what the new D5 looks like. Hmm a rebadged D4. Yup sad to say, Defender really is finished.

---

Mr Landy, if I had a dollar for every time that you've said, (at every opportunity?!) "Defender Is Finished", I would quite easily be way in front of the amount by which my share / retirement portfolio has decreased during the last 24hrs or so!
All is good!. Pickles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pickles2

Mr Landy, if I had a dollar for every time that you've said, (at every opportunity?!) "Defender Is Finished", I would quite easily be way in front of the amount by which my share / retirement portfolio has decreased during the last 24hrs or so!
All is good!. Pickles.

---

Yeah Pickles, I'm getting tired of saying it myself! but when you're the just about the only sceptic amongst a brotherhood of super optimists, there ain't a lot of choice!

I just reckon Land Rover don't really want to build another Defender. And that whatever comes next might be great for the previously welded on D4 buyers, because D5 is clearly for the previously welded on BMW X5 or AudiQ buyers.

Given that watching the share market rise and fall is so predictable I don't know what anyone is worried about. It's a gamble. Short sighted greed will always Trump true sharing in the growth capital economy, so I don't have all that much sympathy I'm afraid. I think the system is broke.

Actually I also think this is the cause of no new Defender. Making or designing something based primarily on economic / mass market grounds leads to the kind of homogenisation we are currently seeing with all Land Rover products.

I might sound like I'm being negative the whole time, but actually it is simply because I am stupidly trying to counteract the majority. I guess I just see things differently. I value form and function over finance.

Cheers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sheerluck

Personally, I think the talk of electric powered Defenders is still a little fanciful.

Realistically, even if the launch has been delayed until 2020, 4 years to launch something totally new is way too little time. If something radical and game changing was available they would have it on the D5 for launch soon.

My view is that it will be a hotchpotch of parts from the existing parts range, and they are just quibbling about the overall look (the much more straightforward sheet metal bits). By the time they've done a couple of years of modelling, then prototype building, then getting tenders and contracts arranged for the buy in parts, 6 months of testing in the Arctic Circle and the Outback, then getting tooling and ramp up arranged, 2020 will be here.

So I doubt it will be a radical change at all, but a cut down (or lengthened) D4 with a dowdy frock on.

---

D5 would have been in development years ago and the game has moved on a lot in that time, in the last couple of years particularly. I agree that 2020 could still be too early to see a new Defender, but it will have to have electric in its platform lifetime. Not initially but it will be the eventual outcome IMO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sheerluck

.......
Realistically, even if the launch has been delayed until 2020, 4 years to launch something totally new is way too little time. If something radical and game changing was available they would have it on the D5 for launch soon.
.......

---

I suppose that it would be churlish to point out that in June 1947 Rover first looked at the possibility of a four wheel drive - unlike anything they had ever built before, but they still launched the Landrover at the end of April 1948, and were delivering production models before the end of the year.

Now certainly the design of a new Defender will be much more complicated, as are the hoops they need to jump through - but the effort in 1947-8 was done with vastly inferior resources, and in particular, without computers.

Like that design, any new Defender would certainly use many parts from existing models, including the engine, and I have no doubt it will have an Ingenium engine - perhaps the only question will be which one(s).

John