Bell Auto Services Hi-flow Intercooler. Any comments or reviews?

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Originally Posted by strangy

EGT's do kill engines quickly and many are misled as to what they are looking at.
Seems to be the popular belief that bigger exhausts = lower EGT's.

EGT's are a direct function of the combustion process ie ECU Tune.
Specifically fuel and air will determine your EGT not the size of your exhaust.

Typically larger exhaust provides more volume for exhaust gases to exit and expand therfore cooler temps at the probe only, not in the combustion chamber where the EGT is generated.
Folks are seeing probe manipulation not actual gas temp in combustion chamber changes.

While faster spool for a turbo may see a better initial or intermediate air flow/pressure for a corresponding rev range, which may give few degress cooler momentarily, it is generally a performance benefit not an EGT reduction. Sustained measurable reductions in EGT from exhaust size increse is probe manipulation only.

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I agree with your point regarding combustion temps however it holds true that if you cant get rid of the hot exhaust gases quickly and efficiently that egts in the engine stay high. The hotter the exhaut gases trying to escape the exhaust the hotter the turbo. The hotter the turbo the hotter the inlet temps and the vicious Circle continues. I have seen this on my s13 drag car both on the dyno and the track.
Many on here with remaps report travelling up long hills or towing in higher gears has lead their vehicles into "limp mode". Not all of these situations but a lot of them could be avoided by improving the puma exhaust flow as Tombie and i have pointed out. We are not saying 3 inch straight through exhaust, just minor changes that can work with your remap and intercooler upgrade to provide a better drivable experience.

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Originally Posted by 1nando

I agree with your point regarding combustion temps however it holds true that if you cant get rid of the hot exhaust gases quickly and efficiently that egts in the engine stay high. The hotter the exhaut gases trying to escape the exhaust the hotter the turbo. The hotter the turbo the hotter the inlet temps and the vicious Circle continues. I have seen this on my s13 drag car both on the dyno and the track. Many on here with remaps report travelling up long hills or towing in higher gears has lead their vehicles into "limp mode". Not all of these situations but a lot of them could be avoided by improving the puma exhaust flow as Tombie and i have pointed out. We are not saying 3 inch straight through exhaust, just minor changes that can work with your remap and intercooler upgrade to provide a better drivable experience.

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Do you disagree with the claimed benefits of ceramic coatings and turbo blankets?
Remove the exhaust and actual EGT remains the same.
Pretty well agreed across the board the Puma exhaust is up to the task and removing restrictions will improve a turbo performance etc however actual EGT reduction isnt one of them
variations in ambient temperatures have a greater affect on EGT than exhaust mods.
As in my other post Im modifying my exhaust for some improvement. It wont change my actual EGT.

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Originally Posted by tact

Have seen comment from people who should be pretty authoritative, like Pete Bell, urging caution about exhaust mods on TDCis to avoid "turdo" overspeed.

Thats the extent of any knowledge I have on the topic.... pretty bare cupboard.

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Exactly, there's plenty in the UK that don't worry about exhaust, even with 170+KW.
Pickles.

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Originally Posted by strangy

Do you disagree with the claimed benefits of ceramic coatings and turbo blankets?
Remove the exhaust and actual EGT remains the same.
Pretty well agreed across the board the Puma exhaust is up to the task and removing restrictions will improve a turbo performance etc however actual EGT reduction isnt one of them
variations in ambient temperatures have a greater affect on EGT than exhaust mods.
As in my other post Im modifying my exhaust for some improvement. It wont change my actual EGT.

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If the exhaust on the puma is "up to the task" why do all bowler tuned defenders run 3 inch exhausts?
Mate ive had a turbo glowing red on a sr20det making 430 rear wheel hp on a dyno crack the manifold simply because the after market exhaust i had on was to restrictive. Once i put a staright through 3 inch exhaust it pretty much eliminated the stupid turbo temps.
Its simple maths:
Reatricitve exhaust drives up exhauts gas temp=hotter turbo=hotter inlet temps=hotter egts AND THEN THE CYCLE REPEATS ITSELF.

If you ever held a turbo in your hand you will realise that one side compressors air into the engine and one side is for exhaust. The hotter the exhaust side the hotter the inlet temp.
Turbo AR ratios and exhaust size are important factors to consider with NA engines. Diesels dont even need to run a exhaust post turbo! This is why competition trucks run extremely short pipes post turbo to get the exhaust gases out as quickly as possible. The issue lies in controlling turbo over speed, this is when they need to run external wastegates to control boost. Keeping the standard 2 and 1/4 inch exhaust and simply freeing it up wont do any harm to your puma engine. There are guys in the uk who have been runing straight through exhausts in their puma for 6 plus years with no issues. Ive even contacted one guy thorugh youtube for some feed back just for my own curiosity.

To tombie
I started this thread looking for a review on a new intercooler.
No where did I ask for your irrelevant response that offer snothing but an unsupported subjective response regarding an illegally modified exhaust set up that you claim is no louder.
I look forward reading to scientific evidence that removing noise abatement measures deliberately installed by the manufacturer to comply with noise regs does not impact on compliance or noise levels.


I also said I might be the first to order one on aulro, given that no one has said they have is reasonable. Putting some childish sunglasses emoji thing intimating you know something but won't say diminishes the thread which asked for just that info and in turn the forum which is all about information sharing.

Clive

Clive have you considered a PWR intercooler?
I have one installed on my 2.2 which was done by Brice Davis automotive. I have run this brand intercooler on 2 drag cars and they are awesome. Made in Australia and excellent quality....just throwing it out there as an option

Umm ok, this seems to have got out of hand.

Tombie wasn't being a smart Alec - just hinting he may have something on order that he's a little excited about.
I'm positive he wasn't in anyway having a poke.

How this thread turned out:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbwyMd3smGk[/ame]

I weep for the future.

The only illegal component is the removal of the Cat...

However the tune WILL pass emission testing and meets all "noise abatement" requirements.

Want to know something - vehicle noise compliance also includes Drive by testing - hence why the Jeep Rubicon wasn't supplied in AU with the same tyres as the USA version - it was too noisy..

As for exhausts and emissions changes - the Rules state that changing ANY part of the system away from manufacturers fitment is a breach of ADRs...

So no aftermarket exhaust at all, or tunes, or Intercoolers, or air filters, or mufflers...

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Originally Posted by 1nando

If the exhaust on the puma is "up to the task" why do all bowler tuned defenders run 3 inch exhausts?

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Because thats what they choose for performance gains.
In the case of the thread and and myriad of other "lightly modded" Pumas the factory sized exhaust with a decat is more than adequate to provide performance advantages with typical remaps.

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Mate ive had a turbo glowing red on a sr20det making 430 rear wheel hp on a dyno crack the manifold simply because the after market exhaust i had on was to restrictive. Once i put a staright through 3 inch exhaust it pretty much eliminated the stupid turbo temps.
Its simple maths:
Reatricitve exhaust drives up exhauts gas temp=hotter turbo=hotter inlet temps=hotter egts AND THEN THE CYCLE REPEATS ITSELF.

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Not sure if you used caps to emphasis or yelling (so im taking emphasis), now discussion has turned to equating overall temps affecting overall engine performance all of which are governed by the fuel air ratio and the fuel air ratio is where the simple maths begins, not after.
Regarding the sr20 and its poor exhaust, the combustion chambers, valves, pistons and oil are still seeing the same temps under the same circumstances and the cooling system is still having to deal with them, this where you earlier spoke of the "silent killer" no more glowing turbo doesn't equal all,ok in the business end.
Not having a go at you or others or deriding exhaust mods.
The context of my previous posts is that exhaust mods are done for performance gains not EGT decreases.

Anyway back to intercoolers.