Ah, interesting! I posted a question around this just as you replied: how hard was it to replace the ignition switch? Did the whole lock assembly have to come out?Quote:
Originally Posted by eckwalsh
Printable View
Ah, interesting! I posted a question around this just as you replied: how hard was it to replace the ignition switch? Did the whole lock assembly have to come out?Quote:
Originally Posted by eckwalsh
Part numbers for the switch from what I can see in the parts catalogue:
YXB500170 - > (SWITCH - IGNITION) [ - (V)CA416961 ]
LR035359 - > (SWITCH - IGNITION) [ (V)CA416961 - (V)CA555554 ]
LR039638 - > (SWITCH - IGNITION) [ (V)CA555555 - ]
I'd like to know also because our TDCi started getting a tight ignition switch a few days ago. PatQuote:
Originally Posted by skidrov
OK, progress so far, sort of working thru Tox's checklist:
- Checked the starter relay: you can hear and feel it clicking.
- Double-checked the battery and terminals, including a clean/tighten of the terminals (although they were clean): no joy. I even put a second battery in parallel, just in case a cell was dropping under load; still no joy.
- Checked the mega-fuse: continuity.
- Checked the voltage at the starter (hi-ampage cable): 12V.
- Checked the voltage at the solenoid (on the weekend): it's a little low when you crank, not sure if that's normal or not. There is a loud "clack" from the solenoid when you key to crank, but no action from the starter.
And, confession time: given it was such a common failure, I replaced the ignition switch first - obviously not the issue in my case as it made no difference. OK, I can see the experienced mechanics shaking their heads at my poor practice (part change before diagnostics): yeah OK, will cop to that. [bigsad] Was just too often described by others for me not to try... And, at least now mine's done, and I've eliminated another fail item on the list in this case.
Just on replacing the ignition switch: it's a bit of a fiddly job. The upper column surround and the instrument binnacle need to come out. The old switch needs a light tap to remove it (AFTER you take out the little retaining screw). I suggest noting and removing the wires BEFORE you remove the switch (battery disconnected first, of course). Getting the new one in is really fiddly; no room, and it needs to be properly aligned. The wires went back on with little fuss, but note that there's not a lot of movement on the switch harness. Related note: I have NO idea how you'd get to the shear bolts on the ignition lock/barrel assembly. I didn't have to do this, but it looks like the dash would need to come out :wallbash:
So, I think I have an old-fashioned case of dead starter. I will now need to find the valium and time to deal with tackling that.... Again, any tricks anyone has found to simplify this GREATLY appreciated!
Right, so the starter is out. Not as bad a job as I thought, but still quite fiddly. There's a good video on this: Defender starter fix It is a challenge doing the final extract once the starter is unbolted - I feel I can relate to an obstetrician....:eek: And, getting it back in is going to be a little more tricky than rinse & repeat, I think...
I then gave it a bench test, which was a little disappointing, in that it worked fine... [bigsad] - was hoping for an instant fail. What I did was the standard checks, triggering the solenoid only, which extended fine, and then triggering the solenoid & motor, which extended the solenoid and spun the motor, at what seemed a fair rate.
On the car, I got the solenoid "clack" but no motor spin. Now, I realise that it's different cranking thin air v. a 2.4L diesel... so on we go. I opened the starter up, and while there was obvious signs of use, it did not look burned or otherwise trashed. Haven't done commutator resistance tests yet.
So: I think I need to chat to an auto leccy, and maybe get them to check the starter (the next point on Tox's chart, credit where due). The other option is to grab one of the eBay Transit/Defender starters for $190 (search for "Starter Motor fit Ford Transit VM engine QVFA HPFB DUCATO 2.2L 2.4L Diesel 06-15") and try that. But, don't want to keep blindly throwing parts at the problem, so I think at the very least I'll phone a local leccy we've used before and see if they think it's worth them testing the starter.
The thought going thru my mind, of course, is to wonder what you'd do in the bush? Which is where I was the weekend before this happened...
The saga continues...
Sounds like you are having fun with this. Lol. After re-installing my starter I put a hot wire cable on mine. This consisted of 2 wires about 2meters long with a small aligator clip on one end. I clipped one onto the main terminal of the starter (the large terminal) and the other onto the solenoid control (the little terminal). Then I just needed to turn the ignition on so that all the dash lights are on and get out and touch the wires together. Essentially hot wiri the car. This tests all components of the ignition circuit. If the starter doesn't turn over it is the starter motor. If it does its in the starter circuit.
Yep great fun! Happy for it to stop now... Too much fun is bad for you... [tonguewink]Quote:
Originally Posted by eckwalsh
The hotwire idea sounds like the way to go as the next diagnostic if the starter checks out OK. If that's the case (hotwire works) clearly I missed something.
Question for you though: when your ignition switch had failed, did you get any sound from the starter, i.e. did it give the "clack" of the solenoid activating at all? Obviously I mean via turning the key to crank, not via the hotwire.
OK, so, we're running! So, that's good... sort of... right?
My hesitation is that I'm not sure exactly what fixed it [FishSlap] - so, obviously, not sure if/when it'll happen again.
I took the starter down to an auto leccy in South Melbourne - Duncan Auto Electrics, good shop, if you need an auto leccy - who very kindly stepped away from their immediate job and put the starter on the bench for me - pretty much the same tests I did, but also did a load test, AND these guys do it for a day job - not like mug amateur me... [tonguewink] . Bottom line is that they gave the starter a clean bill of health.
So, I thought I may as well put it back on the car and try it - that would be the next diagnostic step anyhow.
Notes on refitting: not too bad a job, the worst bit, silly as it sounds, is trying to get the lead and nut back on the solenoid. Really awkward angles, I lost two nuts under there somewhere trying... Best to get this solenoid lead on while the starter's still loose, so you can move it and find a good angle. The main bolts need ring spanners on and off (13mm), with a 10mm nyloc on top of the top one holding a small bracket, and the electrical leads need your small drive sockets, and/or a 10mm spanner.
So, all back together, what the hell, let's try it. And it starts..... [Stunned silence emoticon] (well, as silent as it can be in a running Deafener...).
As I say, not sure what finally fixed it. Dunno if my ignition switch was on its way out, and that caused the starter to have some sort of obscure sulking fit, or what. The only thing I did notice when opening the starter what that there was a small piece of brush carbon between the commutators - maybe that had something to do with it? #uck knows.... The auto leccy did say, after I described my symptoms/diagnostics, that if it worked on refitting, it probably was the starter.
So, end of saga for now, and hopefully for a while. Hope this is of some help for someone at some stage.
Yes it did give a click. I originally thought it was a flat battery. But wouldn't start even with jumper leads. Had to clutch it to to start it to get home. Did the pull the starter outand service it etc but still didn't work. Accidentally touched across the starter terminal and it turned over. Thats when I set up the hot wire. With the ignition on I coild tach the wires together for a second or 2 and it started perfectly. Thats when I back tracked through the circuit and fuses etc untill I was left with the ignition. When I took it out it was melted. Replaced it with a new one and all fixed.Quote:
Originally Posted by skidrov