When to lock CDL

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Originally Posted by 1nando

For those that believe a vehicle in true 4wd isnt a better handling vehicle please read the following;

4WD - Technical informations

The best rally cars in the world have 3 diffs like the defender. The front is usually a open tye diff, the centre and rear diffs are torsen/atb type diffs. Now lets think about this;

If driving in true 4wd negatively effects vehicle handling why do these vehicles have torsen type diffs in the centre diff??

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Ohhhhh, ummmmm let me guess.....Is it because ATB's allow differentiation completely NOT like a locked centre diff? [bigrolf] Your point above doesn't work well for supporting your argument.

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Originally Posted by 1nando

[...] loosing traction through a slipping wheel can lead to loss of vechile control. Its at this point the torsen centre diff locks and sends torque to both axles.

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Don't let these facts get in your way...
- ATB's in and of themselves don't EVER provide a complete lockup. Never. Thats right, never ever. (ref your words in bold above claiming they do " lock and send drive to both axles"). ATB's allow differentiation, always. ATB's resist (not stop completely a'la locked up) excessive differentiation up to a point. Once a wheel has lost all traction an ATB is as useless as an open diff. Which brings me to my next comment...

- ATB's, in the instance you seem so worried about - a wheel in the air at speed down a hard packed (or loose) road ... will behave exactly like an OPEN diff.
- in a more real scenario, like how I drive on dirt roads with all 4 wheels on the deck, an ATB is far from being a locked diff!

So in short - if rally cars with ATB's are your poster boy for things like stability and safety and performance on dirt roads - because in your mind you equate them to your vehicle with the CDL locked..... you are way off track. ATB's do improve stability and safety on fast loose stuff - but it is because they are NOT by any measure like a locked centre diff.

ATBs are also better than an open diff because they allow differentiation always, like an open diff, unlike a diff lock - but ATBs are much better than open diffs at controlling the differentiation they allow up to a point. (i.e. Until traction at one wheel is completely lost).

The reason rally cars run ATB's is exactly what I argue - they allow differentiation front/rear and left/right. Completely unlike when your CDL is locked.

(The better rally setups have electronic controls that control the amount of front/rear differentiation from none to full locked - because on occasion there is a place for having a diff locked. Heck, even the Ashcroft ATB replacement for centre diff on Defenders can still be locked just like the original open centre diff - when its needed.)

Fully agree with Rick, never lock it on normal dirt road driving, vehicle (130) handles more than adequately, (whilst an intentional drift here and there is always a possibility, I am not in a rally) never had a problem with the CD. Cheers Rafferty

I really can't be bothered sharing any more videos and facts. If you want to drive your 4wd with a unlocked cdl on a dirt road then all power to you. If ever you are unlucky enough to loose control and drift into a tree think of me and the how the situation could have been avoided so easily. [emoji6]

Locking the CDL in a Land Rover is one of life’s great simple pleasures.

The figure 8 gate is as much a design classic as the Defender itself.

It’s Easy. Straightforward. Perfect. and uniquely Land Rover.

Why wouldn’t you lock the CDL at every chance you get?

If anyone feels they lack the experience or skills to drive a gravel road without a security blanket lock the center diff by allmeans.Me I have faith in Mr Quaife[biggrin]




AM

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zeros

Locking the CDL in a Land Rover is one of life’s great simple pleasures.

The figure 8 gate is as much a design classic as the Defender itself.

It’s Easy. Straightforward. Perfect. and uniquely Land Rover.

Why wouldn’t you lock the CDL at every chance you get?

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...if you have an ATB in the middle like me :P should be keeping my head down really....
pd

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Originally Posted by dazzler

...if you have an ATB in the middle like me :P should be keeping my head down really....
pd

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😎 Even with an ATB, the ability to lock the CDL defines a Land Rover.

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Originally Posted by 1nando

I really can't be bothered sharing any more videos and facts. If you want to drive your 4wd with a unlocked cdl on a dirt road then all power to you. If ever you are unlucky enough to loose control and drift into a tree think of me and the how the situation could have been avoided so easily. [emoji6]

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I think some perspective should be made of this particular comment.

What you've implied with that reply is that a driver of any vehicle on gravel roads is safe if it has a solidly locked 50:50 power transfer front and rear that you will not 'drift into a tree'? No matter how ignorant this driver may be! Common sense need not apply here, and they enter into those situations at any speed no matter how stupid the speed ! i.e .. a 4WD with solidly locked drive front:rear will save them from monumental stupidity :confused:


Interesting advice![tonguewink]

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Originally Posted by AK83

I think some perspective should be made of this particular comment.

What you've implied with that reply is that a driver of any vehicle on gravel roads is safe if it has a solidly locked 50:50 power transfer front and rear that you will not 'drift into a tree'? No matter how ignorant this driver may be! Common sense need not apply here, and they enter into those situations at any speed no matter how stupid the speed ! i.e .. a 4WD with solidly locked drive front:rear will save them from monumental stupidity :confused:


Interesting advice![tonguewink]

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Who mentioned locking the front and rear, is that what you mean by your last statement or are you implying locking the centre diff distributes torque 50/50 front and rear?

Fyi i had a ashcroft centre atb, elockers front and rear and a complete ashcroft/maxi drive drivetrain. Every single part of my drive train you could imagine was HD as i used it for what i built it for.

Before getting my centre atb i would always lock the centre diff on these so called "hard dirt" roads. I didnt bother once i got the atb in the centre and thats why i bought it.

The issue here is what constitutes a surface that does not provide enough friction to ensure wheel spin does no occur. Now i think of it like this; on many trips/4wd days on "hard dirt" i can only say that on a number of occassions on steep sections i have slipped where my joggers have not been able to provide me enough grip. I think we have all witnessed someone slip on a dirt hill, would this same person slip on a sealed road of the same gradient, i highly doubt it. A dirt road will never have the friction of a tarmac road, is more likely to suffer erosion, areas of very light/maybe bull dust etc making it even less stable. Theres also the fact that you wont know what condition the road is in so I've learnt to always prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

Now for the record im a professional driver which does not in any way imply that you should take my word as gospel but i pride myself on not ever having lost demerit points or being in an accident, ive also done a lot of advanced driving courses and raced a 1000c cbr. I also take unsealed road driving seriously especially if my family is on board. Before my centre atb i would lock the cdl without failure on a unsealed road. I posted a clip earlier in this thread highlighting the difference between a vehicle locked in true 4wd and one that is not on a skid pan. This video was done Andrew st Pierre whos opinion on Toyota is questionable in my eyes but has excellent overland/touring advice and has probably done more kms than anyone on this thread through different countries and continents and whos opinion on the subject at hand i respect. Hes been there and done what i could only dream of doing.
Now some on here siad that this didint apply to the defender as its a permanent 4wd system. The video clearly shows the vehcile in true 4wd even when its towing the camper maintain control and there is no situation. True 4wd allows you to drive through a corner with confidence and control.

I own a brsnd new y62 patrol. It has some excellent technology (what else would you expect from the same company that built "godzilla" otherwise known as the GTR). i still put the thing in true 4wd on dirt. It weighs 3 ton and it loves a drift a bit like its smaller cousin the nissan silvia when its not and left to the technology do its thing. True 4wd keeps the vehcile stable, allows me to power out of a corner and is just confidence inspiring.

But eh....ive posted 2 videos and facts for people to read and yrt no ome has produced evidence to the contrary, just their "expert" opinion [emoji8]

Wow, this thread has sure aroused some passionate views !

I guess it all could be summarised with a statement like "in circumstances which may allow substantial front/rear differential action, intelligent engagement of the cdl should be considered" ?

[bighmmm] ducks for cover