Towing and braking with a 2 tonne load

The biggest difference I made to my braking was throwing out the brake pads and replacing with OEM, in my case Ferodo. My 110 had really crappy brakes, hard pedal when braking, and not much braking. The previous owner had upgraded the suspension and brakes, with slotted rotors, and what I assume were some expensive aftermarket pads. Probably great on a race track, but they seemed to be as hard as nails.

Any way a new set of ferodo pads seems to have made a big difference.

Regarding the towing - I actually prefer the override brakes. I regularly tow horses - and my big float is 1.5T empty, up to 3000kg+ loaded. It's got electric brakes. Your experience of the brakes will come down to the controller. Some are proportional, and will sense how much your vehicle is retarding and apply trailer brakes proportionally. Those are the best type - BUT do you see the problem? To get the whole vehicle to retard you have to apply your brakes with no assistance from the trailer. Then once you have slowed down your 6000kg vehicle, then the trailer brakes come in. So Proportional Electric brakes might as well not be there for most initial brake applications. If you have crap brakes, this is really scary. (The one saving grace of electric brakes is that you can manually apply them, whcih will help in an emergency, for example braking on a down hill gravel road, where your wheels lock up and cannot slow the vehicle enough to trigger the electric brakes - you can jam them on and stop.

Proportional hydraulic brakes which are self contained on the trailer are only legal here in Australia for trailers up to 2000kgs. BUT These work by having a master cylinder mounted in the coupling. As you brake your vehicle, the weight of the trailer presses on the master cylinder and applies the trailer brakes. The most weight your vehicle will feel will depend on how well the brakes are working, if well it may only be a few kgs. The one disadvantage is that there is travel in the coupling, so when you do stop this unloads and you get a small shuffle in the trailer. No big deal, but for some this is a deal buster. BUT for vehicles with crappy brakes if the hydraulics are good, then this type of braking is the safest. Although you still have a potential issue of stopping on a downhil gravel track.

The best braking system would be a proper proportional system that sensed how much pedal pressure you applied, and applied the electric brakes proportionally, perhaps with some sort of load sensing on the coupling to work out if it needed to increase the gain to prevent overrun load.

Sorry bit of a long rant there - but I've spent the best part of every weekend for the last 5 years towing 3T with a variety of 110s some with ABS and some without.

Before dropping $1400 on over ride hydraulic
Could I suggest you run the rig over a weigh bridge with full trip load (Syd-port)

Boat & trailer manufacturers make caravan manufacturers look like law abiding QUeens Councils when it comes to stated “load capacities”

An 1800kg rig could easily weight 2000kg with fuel / water gear onboard

If your Gross trailer weight - ie what you are dragging down the road is over 2T
You need electric over hydraulic brakes with a breakaway system

Very very common on boat rigs
Not difficult to install
Much better braking performance

The way things are going with caravans being weighed an measured there is no way I would chance an overweight rig diving perhaps the busiest/ most enforced road in Australia ?


If under 2T fully rigged
Standard over ride hydraulics on the front axle will keep you legal - for less $ than electric/hydraulic
But a good upgrade throw a set of calipers on the back axle too.



Now the big question
How long do you plan on keeping the boat?
If only a short term throw any stoppers on
If it’s a longer time plan I’d stump up for full stainless braided lines / bronzed rotors / stainless calipers

Else you will be spending another grand in a few years replacing a bunch of non operating rusty junk!

Steve

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BilboBoggles

The biggest difference I made to my braking was throwing out the brake pads and replacing with OEM, in my case Ferodo. My 110 had really crappy brakes, hard pedal when braking, and not much braking. The previous owner had upgraded the suspension and brakes, with slotted rotors, and what I assume were some expensive aftermarket pads. Probably great on a race track, but they seemed to be as hard as nails.

Any way a new set of ferodo pads seems to have made a big difference.

.........- but I've spent the best part of every weekend for the last 5 years towing 3T with a variety of 110s some with ABS and some without.

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Thanks for the comprehensive explanation Bilbo. I've already gone with the hydraulic brakes that has a separate master cylinder not inside the coupling - that appeared to be the sort that was originally on the trailer but had seized many years ago.
Certainly won't be towing on any gravel roads so that's not a concern but thanks for pointing it out. Yes, getting the old 110 to slow abruptly enough to activate the coupling was my main concern. Have towed the boat now with a 2003 3 litre Patrol and it was a doddle - barely felt the trailer under braking - as you say, just a soft nudge as it came into action. Negotiating small roundabouts with an 8.5m trailer is interesting though; need to use both lanes and act like king of the road.
cheers Gerald

Hi Steve, I put answers and comments in red to make it easier for both of us

Quote:

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Originally Posted by roverrescue

Before dropping $1400 on over ride hydraulic already done mate, was quoted $3K for electric and it sort of blew the budget
Could I suggest you run the rig over a weigh bridge with full trip load (Syd-port) put the trailer on the weighbridge and it came in at 540kg

Boat & trailer manufacturers make caravan manufacturers look like law abiding QUeens Councils when it comes to stated “load capacities”

An 1800kg rig could easily weight 2000kg with fuel / water gear onboard boat apparently weighs in at 862kg plus 217kg for the motor totalling 1619kg plus say another 200kg for fuel, water etc so just a touch over 1.8T - rest of any gear will ride in the car or another car

If your Gross trailer weight - ie what you are dragging down the road is over 2T
You need electric over hydraulic brakes with a breakaway system

Very very common on boat rigs
Not difficult to install
Much better braking performance

The way things are going with caravans being weighed an measured there is no way I would chance an overweight rig diving perhaps the busiest/ most enforced road in Australia ? I am curious as to exactly how much the whole rig weighs and will be collecting it in a fortnight to 3 weeks and will, as long asI remember, take it to the weighbridge for an official weighing.


If under 2T fully rigged
Standard over ride hydraulics on the front axle will keep you legal - for less $ than electric/hydraulic that's what I've got
But a good upgrade throw a set of calipers on the back axle too. yes, i was thinking along those lines as well - thanks for the good advice on all points.



Now the big question
How long do you plan on keeping the boat? good question - maybe 10 years??
If only a short term throw any stoppers on
If it’s a longer time plan I’d stump up for full stainless braided lines yep, got them/ bronzed rotors / stainless calipers got gal on both rotors and calipers

Else you will be spending another grand in a few years replacing a bunch of non operating rusty junk! I'll be caring for them quite well, trust me- i'm pretty good at washing these things down. Yes, I know it's bloody hard to get salt out but with discs it shouldn't be too much of an issue

Steve

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Well folks, I thank you sincerely for all your advice. W&KO, many times at rego check the mechanics wouldn't even take it for a drive but when they did, it still somehow passed.
Again, i replaced the booster, as advised by this forum, then tend to develop cracks at the bolts that hold the master cylinder on and mine had done that and also the one way check valve failed. I couldn't buy one of those for love or money so left it in, replaced the entire vacuum line and installed a straight in line one way valve and hey presto, I now have power assisted brakes for the first time in 10 years - I'm like a kid with a new bike - woohoo!
And I now feel far more comfortable at the thought of towing this 2t load - many thanks to all again.
cheers Gerald