110 towing capacity - no where near 3500kg

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Originally Posted by trout1105

The rule you are looking for is called Common Sense[thumbsupbig]
If the trailer you are towing feels unstable simply stop and rearrange the load, It's not rocket science.

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I'm not sure a friend of mine would agree with you.

The problem is that the instability may not become apparent until you are in a situation where stopping and rearranging the load is easily achieved.

In his case the problem first developed as he was heading down the hill that goes past the northern turn off into Mittagong. The trailer tried to overtake the vehicle and swung sideways with enough force to buckle the rims on the trailer. He managed to stop, get some new wheels, rearrange the load and continue, but said it was the scariest incident he had ever had.

He was particularly embarrassed that he had cause the problem because part of his job at that time was delivering quite heavy farm machinery on a car trailer. He knew very well how a trailer should be loaded and had never had a problem in the past.

On this occasion his load consisted of furniture and even though he knew the trailer was slightly tail heavy, he thought that as it was a much lighter load than farm machinery that it wouldn't matter. He couldn't believe that he had been so stupid.

The point of the story is that it didn't feel unstable until he was heading down that long hill where slowing down was no simple matter once the trailer tried to overtake him.

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Originally Posted by TonyC

Hi Dave,
Both the LR owners book and the Hayman Reese tow bar for my 95 130 say 4000kg towing and 120kg ball weight.

Tony

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correct, however in the discoveries a portion (or all depending on which topack you have) of the ball weight is included in the vehicle capability. In theory, this means that if you load your disco up to its nominal GVM by simply adding the approved X amount of payload you can still put a trailer on providing you dont go over the nominated included ball weight. ITs a great argument to have with whiney mitsoyotasan drivers who bitch about toball weight and load limits on their vehicles meaning they cant put all the crap in the vehicle and all the crap in the van and come up with non insurance voiding numbers....

"you cant do that you're going to be over weight on the vehicle"
nope manual says, and the numbers match
"but the axle limits will go over"
nope load transfer means the weight transfers off the front axle onto the rear providing you dont go over the GVM or included towball force
"But you cant do that, its not rated"
Says so right here, its even in the maintenance books.
"You cant do it, because I cant do it"
Just because your tow equipment poorly does not mean I have the same limits as you
"But I have a bigger heavier X with more engine and more power"
Yes and you also have fuel consumption that would have me concerned if I was driving the V8 version of the disco, but fortunately Im not
"There is no way you can tow that van with that, its not legal the van weighs so much and you need to have a weight distribition hitch which your vehice...

you get the idea.

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On this occasion his load consisted of furniture and even though he knew the trailer was slightly tail heavy, he thought that as it was a much lighter load than farm machinery that it wouldn't matter. He couldn't believe that he had been so stupid.

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Hoping for the best even when you know the trailer is loaded badly doesn't strike me as using a common sense approach at all[bigwhistle]

It's an interesting discussion.

I became rather obsessed about correct towing after having a horse float come off the back about 25 years ago. Not fun. The horse didn't enjoy it either.

Our new hybrid caravan weighs about 2.4 tonnes fully loaded, including 200 litres of water just behind the axle. There is a large dual compartment fridge and a generator forward of the axle, and 2 spare wheels/tyres on the back, so the weight distribution is pretty good.

The towball weight is 201kg, according to my towball weight scale. So about 8.3%.
It tows fine, very stable, and the back of the Defender doesn't even drop.

Apart from ģetting the trailer properly balanced, I picked up an important towing tip from a Robert Pepper video.

The vehicle brake controller should be set so the trailer brakes harder than the vehicle. This means a light touch on the brakes will slow the trailer faster than the tow vehicle. This pulls the trailer in behind the vehicle and makes it stable.
You want to avoid having the trailer push the vehicle, as control of the vehicle can be lost, with bad results.
If a trailer starts swaying, the weaving means the trailer is travelling a further distance than the vehicle.
You only have a few seconds to stop this, before going A over T. There isn't enough time to think to react and adjust the brake controller. The instinctive reaction is to slam on the brakes and hope.
If the vehicle brakes harder than the trailer, then the trailer can push the vehicle sideways. Very bad.
If the trailer brakes harder than the vehicle, the trailer will pull itself into line behind the vehicle. Very good.

Another advantage is the trailer brakes can be used to slow the vehicle on steep descents, so the vehicle's brakes don't overheat.

Works for us.

I learnt a lot from Robert Pepper's YouTube towing vids. Recommended.

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

I learnt a lot from Robert Pepper's YouTube towing vids. Recommended.

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He also has numerous other Vids that are very good.Knows what he is on about.

Yes,i always have the brake controller set so it will pull in the trailer/van brakes slightly harder than the vehicles.

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Originally Posted by trout1105

Sadly Common sense is in short supply in Aus, thats why we have the 10% rule[bigwhistle]

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I'd say that's the reason why we have so many rules and warning signs . . . . there's still people around that refuse to wear seat belts purely because they're mandatory and they don't like being told what to do. And no logic will ever convince them otherwise.

I am going through this now - trying to figure out the tow capacity and ball mass of my '85 county 4BD1. Australian owner's manual supplement lists GVM of 2950 kg (also on the compliance plate) and GCM of 6950 kg (not on the compliance plate), but no mention of ball mass on any manufacturer's documentation I have.

I have also seen figures of 3500, 3750 and 4000 kg tow capacity mentioned online, but I haven't seen it in writing anywhere for 83-89 models.

The attached RACQ/CIA guide lists 4000 kg tow capacity, but a paltry 75 kg ball mass on road, and only 30 kg off road... making all that tow capacity useless...

The hitch receiver is no help, as it predates mandatory load rating labelling requirements.

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Originally Posted by trout1105

The rule you are looking for is called Common Sense[thumbsupbig].

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Agree in most part with this common statement, however I was challenged for using this once.

What is common sense? Your upbringing/education may be very different to another individuals. This impacts common sense!

An example:
As a kid, Mum told me to stay away from the oven door because it could be hot and burn me.

As an adult I know that if it’s 300c in that oven - it’s going to burn.

As a kid, what did I do? I touched the door and got burnt (only a bit) but it’s a phenomenon I’ve seen many kids so many times since.


“Common” is only that if it’s taught to everyone.

And the ability to risk assess is a skill, some have no idea about things.

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Originally Posted by Tombie

Agree in most part with this common statement, however I was challenged for using this once.

What is common sense? Your upbringing/education may be very different to another individuals. This impacts common sense!

An example:
As a kid, Mum told me to stay away from the oven door because it could be hot and burn me.

As an adult I know that if it’s 300c in that oven - it’s going to burn.

As a kid, what did I do? I touched the door and got burnt (only a bit) but it’s a phenomenon I’ve seen many kids so many times since.


“Common” is only that if it’s taught to everyone.

And the ability to risk assess is a skill, some have no idea about things.

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All toddler's and most teenagers do stupid things myself included.
The problem is that many adults haven't got past this stage of their life regardless of their age[bigwhistle]
The Advanced risk assessment skills that we aquire in our formative years are what makes us adult's But unfortunately there are some that can't or won't apply these aquired/taught skills in their daily lives.
This is why various Laws are needed on our roads and safty rules are rigorously applied in the workplace.
The truth of the matter is that some people simply cannot or will not Grow Up and this is why we have the term "Darwinism" [bigwhistle][thumbsupbig]

I also believe it’s a total lack of educating (read parenting) by a section of society, that has failed to pass on the basics necessary for a rounded development.

The modern expectation of a sector of the community seems to be that schools teach everything and parents can just avoid any requirements to, you know, be actual parents.