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Thread: The front Puma axle saga continues.

  1. #1
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    The front Puma axle saga continues.

    This is the latest on this on Defender2 and I think it is most disturbing. This post here says a lot about Land Rover and customer safety/care . I have a Defender 2.4 with the single seam weld so I am in the "should be concerned" category. Land Rover did fit the magic brackets to my axle that is supposed to some how negate this issue. We all know what a puncture is like when you are driving but I dread to think what it would be like if the weld on the axle decided to give up. Somehow I do not think the magic brackets would do much to mitigate things if you are driving at 60mph.
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    * UPDATE*
    Well its been a 6 months battle, I wish i had sum positive news but sadly not the case. The more i have dug deeper the more disturbing it get. So here is the current breakdown :
    1, Insurance company has inspected the vehicle twice with 2 different engineers both reports come back catastrophic failure of the axle caused by incorrect welding, dirty weld practice and poor quality metal. The axle was x-rayed and was showing to have cracks all over the casing, This was also pointed out that the casing molding was not up to vehicle spec for the weight and the vehicle being a 4x4. The report says the casing levels was less than legally needed for a small trailer.
    2. After a long fight with Landrover and a few emails to the CEO i got two landrover engineers sent from the UK to France to carry out a inspection. Both L/R engineers agreed with the Insurance engineers. But what i find out next is the disturbing point !!!!
    3, Following quoted from one engineer !! The axles were made in India by the order of TATA due to a parts plant there needing more work or it would be closed down. If it was closed down TATA would have to pay to much money to the Indian government due to past cash injections in to the plant.
    The axles went for friction welding to mig welding to reduce cost. Anyway after 6 months of the new axles coming form India Landrover were fully aware that their was a serious problem. Their was also two new defender at landrover offroad experience that had snapped axles with under 2000 miles on the vehicle.
    Landrover then checked futher and found that they had a very big problem. The following re-call was made as we are all aware but !!!!!! these are the scary bits
    1, Only 110 -130 were recalled even when the 90 was fitted with the same axle ( Their view the 90 was less weight so it could hold better )
    2, Only 100 vehicles were re-called per 1000 produced ( that's 900 vehicles still with faulty axles per 1000 driving around ) This was to save cost as to replace all axles as advised by the DVSA safety branch was to costly plus the modification to all vehicles was also to costly.
    3, Landrover after the re-call informed DVSA and other market vehicle safety dept EU etc that all vehicles had been modify or had replacement axles. ( They lied to the governments )

    So me I am no further forward Landrover offered me the cost of my vehicle direct transfer to my bank if i sign a non disclosure agreement and say nothing to anyone !! Landrover are trying to brush this under the carpet. Plus a further person in the UK which as had the same in the past months has also been offered this by them. We have both declined as its extremely worrying and dirty business practices.

    The lawyer will deal with it and the press now.

    But on another point that was found out by the investigation !! We all underseal are vehicles and my vehicle was undersealed. It was found that the underseal stops the showing of cracks and due to its rubber feel it had also stopped any pre leak from the axle. ( So be very aware what is happening under the underseal on these welds as it may look ok but the crasks are hidden.

    Sorry for the long post but that is were we are currently, I feel every owner has a right to know. Plus there as been in the last 3 years 34 accidents across Europe due to this axle problem. They are now starting to re-exam accident reports with defender crashing on motorways etc.
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    DEFENDER2.NET - View topic - Puma 2012 Front Axle

  2. #2
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    Re the above,
    This is in complete contrast to Mercedes over here. I don't know the exact model but whichever model it is has a bad disintegrating rear sub frame. This is due to cheap steel bought from FIAT who initially bought it in bulk from RUSSIA. Mercedes are fitting complete new rear subframes to models even 10 years old once the car is presented to a main dealer for inspection. No main dealer service history needed. That is the way to do things. I hope Land Rover are told to get this sorted, the correct way. Owing to the small number of vehicles involved they should be more than capable of doing this.
    Surely they realise once the name "DEFENDER" becomes tarnished with this issue it will be associated with the NEW DEFENDER too even though it does not have live beam axles. Such will be the public perception. This might be the only way they will take this matter seriously.

  3. #3
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    The roads in Ireland are good compared to Australian ones too. Whats the fix for you? A Td5 type Defender front axle?
    Cheers
    Slunnie


    ~ Discovery II Td5 ~ Discovery 3dr V8 ~ Series IIa 6cyl ute ~ Series II V8 ute ~

  4. #4
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    Don't know. I do not know what causes the failure to kick in. Wondering if there will be any more action by Land Rover.

  5. #5
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    Is there any reports of this happening to Defenders here in Australia??

    I haven't heard of any and most 2.4 Tdci's would by now have a fair few kms on them so if this was a issue here in Australia, I would have thought it would have raised its head by now...

    thoughts... ?

  6. #6
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    Like I said earlier I have a vehicle with the built in potentially self destructing front axle but I do not dwell on it. There are other hazards on the road that I have to contend with. It is when I see posts like the above that it resurfaces in my brain but what really annoys me is Land Rover's attitude. Defects will happen, that is the way of the world but it is how you deal with them that counts.
    Some people have had trouble with the Puma intermediate shaft which can be serious too but I have not. There are the Discovery engines that are disintegrating so other people have things to worry about too. I could also be driving a "normal car" with the potential of dying of boredom. I was out in my Puma with the potentially self destructing axle earlier today and I am going back out in it now. It is parked on concrete so I check for leaks every so often. My series 111 is parked on concrete too and there are some leaks from that but it is not from a potentially self disintegrating front axle. Hopefully things will be O.K. when I am out in the Puma but even with a 100% perfect vehicle that is no guarantee of safety. A case in point being earlier today while driving the Puma in a nearby town. I happened to notice a girl walking in a summer top with the most amazing "suspension kit" and well if I'd lost control of the Puma it would have nothing to do with a self destructing front axle. I only wish Land Rover had a better attitude to the issue. Now where are those keys?

  7. #7
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    Do we know if this only affected 2012 Defenders or were other years also affected? Was it only 6 months of dodgy axles?
    Mine is a 2009.
    2009 Defender 110 2.4. ARB bulbar, Ironman winch, Safari snorkel, Steinbauer chip, AP HD clutch, Lightforce spots, larger tank, Off Road Systems drawer, Traxide 160 controller, Tekonsha brakes, Mulgo seat runners, Uniden UHF, Nuggetstuff seat corners, breathers, Polaris GPS.

  8. #8
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    It seems to be a short window where things got shoddy. I'd say 2009 should be fine, If you look at your axle if it has a double weld seem i.e. two parallel welds about 3 cm apart you are fine. There is a lot of info in the Defender2 link if you go through it.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by spudfan View Post
    It seems to be a short window where things got shoddy. I'd say 2009 should be fine, If you look at your axle if it has a double weld seem i.e. two parallel welds about 3 cm apart you are fine. There is a lot of info in the Defender2 link if you go through it.
    Do you mean 3mm apart ?
    Originally friction welded where one part is rotated and pushed against the other, metal gets red hot and spews out. The rotation is then stopped and pressure held till it cools a bit. You end up with two ridges of material that have been forced out.

    Rotary Friction Direct Drive Welder for Tube Axle Housings - Model 60T - YouTube

    Colin
    '56 Series 1 with homemade welder
    '65 Series IIa Dormobile
    '70 SIIa GS
    '76 SIII 88" (Isuzu C240)
    '81 SIII FFR
    '95 Defender Tanami
    '58 Series II (sold)
    Motorcycles :-
    Vincent Rapide, Panther M100, Norton BIG4, Electra & Navigator, Matchless G80C

  10. #10
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    Yes that is the accurate way of putting it. Still my 2011 has one of the non correct welds and it is still going.

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