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I'm high lighting this one on my list after you mention the starter motor sometimes sounds like it stalls, as in power is dropping to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by DazzaTD5
I guess when the starter "stalls"as you put it, you have to turn the key off and crank again?
My immediate reaction once the starter stalls is to release the key and try again. The starter will go rrr and then stall. It is now to the point where sometimes it only properly cranks on the 3rd try. But even then it will sometimes crank and crank and crank before it fires.
And sometimes it fires for an instant, hesitates and then bursts into life. And sometimes it starts very quickly ( normally ) Very frustrating.
Can someone explain why it might be the switch on the key barrel ? Is this suggesting that the starter is a separate problem ? Or does the ignition switch also separately control part of the fuel system ?
Oldie
Your posts went from it cranks over fine... to cranks then the starter motor stalls.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldie
*if the out going power on the switch at the back of the ignition barrel does not feed out because the switch is intermittently failing then the power to the starter motor intermittently stops and the starter motor... stalls. it is also on the cheaper end of the parts cannon, so prolly a better place to start... so to speak
Why do you believe its fuel related, when you did mention that the mechanic said the high pressure side of the fuel system is good. What is his/her definition of "good" looks good? they are reading pressures during cranking? on idle pressures?
If fuel delivery to the high pressure pump (via the internal lift pump in the high pressure pump) is poor due to a restriction as an example then the ecu will try and compensate for this (poorly) and ends up over pressurising the high pressure side (the rail) which results in a high (as in incorrect) pressure fault and nasty injector rattle and overall very poor running. Keep in mind this over pressure condition can be a result of a restriction on either the delivery (to the pump) or on the return line back to the fuel tank.
suggestions made by myself and other AULRO members are at best professional guesses... as the Defender is not in front of me or others... except your mechanic, so his/her professional guess should in theory be a lot closer than anyone else.
Thanks Daz.
It has been good for the last few weeks then a few days ago was back to its old bad habits. Lots of cranking and no fire in the belly. And now today over multiple starts it was fine.
At this stage I cannot see any pattern and the indy is puzzled as well.
When he measured the fuel pressures his answer was ... during cranking pressures show there is fuel in the system and the after it starts running pressures are normal. What about there being an intermittent fault on the signals to the injectors ? There could be pressure in the HP line but nothing in the cylinders hence no ignition. Or, could the injectors dump a load of fuel in all cylinders and cause a temporary "hydrauliced" effect which causes the starter motor to stall. Puzzling.
I still feel it is in the electics/electroncs associated with fuel delivery. Maybe a sensor on the way out. It is the intermittent nature of the problem which leads me down this path.
As a bit of lateral thinking, given it is the Ford 2.4 motor, is there a Ford site similar to this that I could check out for similar issues ? Just thinking.
Oldie and getting older
i honestly would start with:
LR039638 - its the switch assembly that is behind the ignition barrel, its a very common fault on a 2.4 (i use a genuine one, but the cheap cheap ones will do for nothing more than simple test n see)
*remove the top plastic cover over the instrument panel, then remove the instrument panel, then the column plastic surround, this will give better access to it all.
there is no equal or similar site to AULRO, its the best $11 (sub per year?) you will spend on your Land RoverQuote:
Originally Posted by oldie
Daz, thks for the advice of 22 December about replacing the switch. The problem of not firing has not happened since then but we are doing the Canning in July so I am tidying up all the known hickups and am now looking to take yr advice and replace the switch.
From what I can see, the switch sits in the back of the steering lock/ignition key assembly. What holds it in ?
You mentioned you bought Lucas. Do you buy from dealer or from online supplier ?
Oldie
If we go back to the your very first line in your original post, this is a typical symptom of the switch on the back of the ignition assembly.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldie
LR039638 - well I only fit genuine to customers as the alternatives are britpart or allmakes (which is all under Britparts now anyway), but they are only $20 odd dollars as apposed to over $100.00
(There are some slight variations on the depth of the switch assembly, but i'm sure thats only before 2007, so the number I gave you should be correct)
*disconnect the battery if you must ( I dont but I'm careful and I'm not going to short a live wire onto a earth)
*Remove the IP (instrument panel) cluster (2 screws holding top plastic cover, 2 screws holding front plastic facia, 2 screws holding IP cluster, electrical plug behind cluster has a little cam lever)
*remove the plastic surrounds on the steering colum. the underside plastic has a screw right down the bottom, it actually holds a plastic pin and does not need to be removed.
*take pics of what wires connect to what pins on the switch.
*there are two very tiny screws on each side of the ignition barrel that keep the switch in place, remove, dont loose them.
*reverse the above steps...
P.S you can buy from LRDirect in the U.K, rimmerbros in the U.K, or any recommendation other AULRO members suggest
Hi Daz,
Thanks for the tips. I bit the bullet and bought a genuine switch from SD Parts in western Sydney. It was actually $30 cheaper than Rimmers and they had it in stock.
Followed your instructions, thanks. But I had to do it 3 times ! First time, I put the old switch back in. Yeah old age ! And those little retaining screws are a real challenge to my 79 year old fingers, particularly the back one. But after trying the suggestion I found in another post somewhere to use blue tack on the end of the screw driver I reverted to an old trick of using a bit of cardboard. Cut a strip about 10mm wide and about 100mm long. Punch a small hole about 6mm from one end and screw the little self tapper through the card. This allows you to position the screw into the hole with one hand and use the other with the srew driver to start the thread. I then pulled the card out before tightening the screw right up. To make removal of the card easier, I cut from the end of the card backl to the hole I made. The card is stiff enough to keep the screw in place but the cut allows you pull the card out. Then tighten screw. Simple.
So then for the second install with the new switch. Remove dash, instruments etc, change switch and refit dash, all in 30 minutes. But nothing much worked ! Rattling noise from a relay somewhere when trying to start engine, similar rattling noise and rapid flashing of indicators when trying to lock the truck. Bugger. And I was sure I had the plugs correct.
Next day opened dash up again and yep, plugs correct. Maybe the computer is upset so I disconnected the battery for a while and just for interest checked the voltage. Almost new battery so surprised to find down to 2.4 volts. While waiting for the battery charger to do its work, pulled the switch out again and checked its operation with multi meter and checked plugs against circuit diagrams and all should have worked. So reassembled and now with a fully charged battery, it works !!!
While waiting for the battery to charge I fiddled with the old switch ( partly because the drive socket in new switch did not line up with the drive shaft in the steering lock ).
I pulled the old switch apart and was disappointed with what I found. My old switch would not have lasted much longer ! My truck is MY10 Defender cab/chas with only 145,000 km but that switch was close to complete mechanical failure. Contacts looked good but the plastic bits were very dodgy.
So thanks again for pointing me in that direction, at least a major drama has been averted. Now to see if the original problem has also gone away. And I am unsure what drained the battery in such a short time. Certainly the headlights were not on overnight.
Keith
lets hope all is now well [thumbsupbig]