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Thread: Airbag suspension and off-road driving

  1. #1
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    Airbag suspension and off-road driving

    I posted about this in the general technical section but did not get any response that helped answer my question, so asking again in the Defender area as it probably more specifically relates to the Defender. I'm contemplating converting the rear of the 130 to airbags and am wondering how suited they are to the kind of 4wd use that requires continual axle articulation. I'm confident that airbags are great for outback touring and load carrying but that is only one part of the use of my vehicle and it needs to be capable and reliable on the often challenging high-country tracks as well. Wondering what others have found with air suspension in that sort of use. Also wondering about the durability of the bags; I had a friend had an airbag failure in a patrol somewhere up Cape York, wondering if this is a regular occurrence?
    I'm talking about stand-alone airbags, not the ones that go inside coil springs.

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    The blokes that have fitted air bags don't post here anymore

    Tony has a great thread on his 120 here Rangier's ISUZU 4BD1T 120"
    I haven't seen Tony on here for a number of years.

    Ben doesn't have his 110 anymore, and unfortunately it looks like a lot of photos were on Photobucket so have disappeared into the ether, but there are drawings and part numbers still on this thread. ISUZU County Tourer
    Ben hasn't posted here for years either.

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    And it turns out GrizzlynBear managed to wreck an airbag through too much articulation.
    Arapiles
    2014 D4 HSE

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    Well that is very interesting. I really like the idea of airbags for levelling and load carrying but if they are likely to build in a point of unreliability I think I'll just get new coils.

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    The vehicles that have this rear only airbag setup are Disco 2's and some Prado's. I don't know much about Prado's but the D2's don't seem to get as many complaints about airbags IIRC, much more about 3 Amigo's, XYZ Gearbox Switch, ECU Loom Oil, etc. Also, I'm not sure if the OP's 130 has Traction Control, in which case not having all four wheels on the ground is not as much of a problem as the TC will simulate locked diff's front and rear, and if it has a centre diff lock even better. I think airbags might pro'ly not have as much droop versus being able to compress, but if one really wants the best of that, even a coiler will need disconnecting sway bars and dislocation cones.

    I also think it might be easier to change an airbag next to the road than a coil, or even temporarily fix it with sealant, or directly inflate it with a compressor if the onboard one fails, as well as being a much lighter spare to carry.

    On my D2 with the rear suspension raised I could fit my head between the tyre and the wheel arch and look around in the wheel well! I liked the air suspension so much I bought a D3 with airbags all round. I had the D2 airbags replaced when I bought it as they were leaking and eventually the compressor did go, but that wasn't a showstopper I just pulled the fuse IIRC until my mechanic could do the job.
    2005 D3 TDV6 Present
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    Thanks for the comments Randlover. My 130 does not have traction control but it does have diff locks front and rear. I've never had a coil spring break so never carry a spare one, I'd be quite ok with carrying a spare air-spring bladder and with fitting one in the bush.
    I had a soft-dash Range Rover Classic to which I re-installed original air suspension after a coil conversion by a previous owner. Loved the result, but I would never take that car bush- too many early-generation electronic gadgets that would not have survived a river crossing, let alone airbag worries.
    The one reply I got to this same enquiry in the tech section was a referral to 'grizzlynbear' videos, and then in this thread the info that they had a failure. My friend with his patrol had a failure on Cape York. That's two from two of people I'm aware of who use these things in remote travel- yes a very small sample but I don't seem to be able to find a bigger one- so I think that's enough for me.

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    Here's is the specific video content in case you haven't found it Peter

    It ended with a bang! Cape York (Ep230) - YouTube

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    Thanks Tim, not my cup of tea so happy not to have to watch all their stuff to find that. 8:27 for anyone else looking for it.
    That track would be pretty routine high-country terrain, however their failure was caused by long-travel shocks fitted without thought to the effect on the airbags, I guess if you want that extra travel with coils you fit dislocation cones but I don't know of any equivalent with air suspension. Less of a problem than I thought though, and not really a strike against air suspension.

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    See if you can have a yarn with W&KO about his setup. On the road atm o a little difficult to reach.
    ​JayTee

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    I run 4 corner Air bag man air suspension. Fitted the kit in early 2021 and since then done several VHC trips and a Simpson crossing with a stint in the Flinders Rangers driving the tracks to watering holes etc. My kit is not off the shelf. I run extended shocks and have modified the front turret height to suit the longer shock and in the rear i have a hybrid bellow with 20" extension and run 12" shocks.

    As for VHC type touring or driving that type of track in the GrizzlynBear video, provided the set up is all balanced you should not have a problem. By balanced i mean, shock lengths are ideal to bellow travel and the bump stops are your limiting factor on compression.

    Issues that i've encountered since fitting the kit:

    1) broke the piston on the front. From the short section of video in the GrizzlynBear failure, mine was the same. I did mine **** around at home. i aired up the rear to full extension but that put the weight on the front and it broke the plastic bit that holds it to the axle mount. I see how the GrizzlynBear failure could happen in the bush and i'm conscious of it. Having sufficient height in the front when in cross axle terrain will help. It gives the bellow a fighting chance for the PSI to exponentially increase to increase the rate before the bellow bottoms out. See pics

    2) i cracked the rear diff coil mount. The bellow has a larger diam base compared to the coil and with the diff roll from the pinion angle, there is alot more leverage on the diff mount. I found the crack on a rest day before the Simpson crossing. only found it because i was dedicated enough to put a torch on every nut, bolt and suspension part as a precaution. Welded it in Birdsville as a temp fix. i replaced the cracked mounts with thicker and larger mounts that i had welded on.

    3) i broke both front shock mounts at the bottom. One went on Davies plain over Xmas. That was a palaver to limp back to Omeo to weld a fix job to get me home. the other in Bunnings car park. Air bag man revised the bracket design from the first set with extra bracing. On my set up the shock bottoms out before the extended bump stops have enough resistance to be the primary limiting factor. I run GL + 1" bump stops + the spacer that Air Bag man offer in the kit. I'm +2" extended. I run 3 way adjustable shocks so there is about 1" at the base of the shock for the rebound adjustment mechanism. That reduced the closed length by that amount. Short of designing (which i will do) a shock mount that is set lower at the bottom to account for the shorter closed length, it will be an ongoing problem. FWIW the 130 handles no different without shocks on the front with air bellows. not sure if that is good or bad. The Bunnings breakage was 2 hrs Hwy drive from home where i had a spare.

    The rear has been trouble free save for the mount crack. if you are just interested in load carrying and flexibility of height adjustability between loaded and empty, fit rear bellows and run coil fronts. A rear sway bar will be beneficial. On balance, air suspension is not worth the money, hassle and stress. I never had a problem with coils and never gave thought to failures of coils in the bush. With air, i'm very conscious of it and it occupies much of my mental load when in remote areas.

    Air bag_2.jpgfront air bag.jpgDefender 130 - Diggy - 1 of 2 (1).jpgDefender 130 - Diggy - 2 of 2 (1).jpg

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