Which engine in Defender 130 for the big trip?

Don't be put off by McRovers extensive list of TD5 'worms'. They are a good engine, and you could probably make a list that long for any engine :D I've got one of each (TD5/300Tdi) and they are both excellent engines.

We had a French couple (Martine & Robert - who others also met up with) and they did the reverse trip to you from Paris to Australia via Oman, Pakistan, India etc in a TD5. They had a trouble free run in theirs and have since driven on to NZ I believe (via some sort of boat of course).

Anyway - I'm sure you'll do your own evaluation and work out the best course of action for you & your family.

Good on you for planning such a trip because 99.9% of people just want to go the quick and easy way.
David

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dutchontoast

i'm now reading the pdf 'Understanding and tuning the Injection Pump of Land Rover Tdi Engines'

Kai

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Hi Kai,

Where did you find that pdf please? It sounds a useful read!

Cheers,

Paul

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wilbur

Hi Kai,

Where did you find that pdf please? It sounds a useful read!

Cheers,

Paul

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Hi Paul, http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment...ng-20rev.2.pdf

Interesting thread... again.

Having had a 200tdi & a TD5, I'd go TD5 every time.

Memory is a bit hazy now of tdi problems so I happily stand corrected on any of the following..

Timing belts will always be an issue. I had one walk & fray, picked up by Graeme Coopers on service, changed at 20,000 kms

I think I'd rather clean loom connections than change a belt in the bush! There really aren't any ECU issues other than the oil in the loom thing. Nonetheless, a Nanocom & a satphone is piece of mind.

Not sure about tdis, but the TD5 will run on low cetane African diesel. Its a one-spec world engine. Bad fuel will kill both though.

And I know from experience, the Td5 will run for 3 days with the underseat area full of muddy water. Not to be recommended obviuosly, it was the fuel regulator that finally played up & stopped it.

As I understand it the military don't like TD5s, or any other modern EFI diesel, is that the loom interferes with HF radio. That's all.

Tdis need a mod to warn you of coolant loss. The std sensor is to low, & the damage is done when the dashboard light comes on.

Tdis do head gaskets about every 150-160,000 kms. And replacement heads are getting very scarce.

Tdis have a clutch thats too small, doesn't last long enough with any loads, towing etc.

All the non-ECU Td5 issues that come to mind can be sorted before you go. Exhaust manifold, oil pump bolt, & head studs on early vehicles. Preventative maintenance applies to any vehicle.

That's enough from me..

Regards
Max P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tusker

Interesting thread... again.

Having had a 200tdi & a TD5, I'd go TD5 every time.

Memory is a bit hazy now of tdi problems so I happily stand corrected on any of the following..

Timing belts will always be an issue. I had one walk & fray, picked up by Graeme Coopers on service, changed at 20,000 kms

I think I'd rather clean loom connections than change a belt in the bush! There really aren't any ECU issues other than the oil in the loom thing. Nonetheless, a Nanocom & a satphone is piece of mind.

Not sure about tdis, but the TD5 will run on low cetane African diesel. Its a one-spec world engine. Bad fuel will kill both though.

And I know from experience, the Td5 will run for 3 days with the underseat area full of muddy water. Not to be recommended obviuosly, it was the fuel regulator that finally played up & stopped it.

As I understand it the military don't like TD5s, or any other modern EFI diesel, is that the loom interferes with HF radio. That's all.

Tdis need a mod to warn you of coolant loss. The std sensor is to low, & the damage is done when the dashboard light comes on.

Tdis do head gaskets about every 150-160,000 kms. And replacement heads are getting very scarce.

Tdis have a clutch thats too small, doesn't last long enough with any loads, towing etc.

All the non-ECU Td5 issues that come to mind can be sorted before you go. Exhaust manifold, oil pump bolt, & head studs on early vehicles. Preventative maintenance applies to any vehicle.

That's enough from me..

Regards
Max P

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Thanks Max - i think! - i'm now getting slightly confused… i'm gathering that whatever issues the early TD5s had were ironed out in the later models, but by what year, 2003?

As an earlier poster mentioned, there's pros and cons for both engines, and it really seems to be a case of finding the truck with the best maintenance records, rather then focusing purely on the engine…

Time will tell which way i'll go with this…

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dutchontoast

If only i could have you in my back pocket and ready to pull out when i'm stuck in that deadspot in the Iranian desert with too much cloud coverage for sat phone reception and the local bandits lurking in the bushes…
No problem I will be ready to go when you are:)

Oh, and a special mention of thanks goes to McRover, with his long list on links on potential issues with TD5s… i'm now reading the pdf 'Understanding and tuning the Injection Pump of Land Rover Tdi Engines'

Thanks all for the feedback everyone, it's really appreciated :-)

Kai

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That's the best thing about this site, no matter what you decide on some one here will be able to help.

To elaborate on my previous post...

In most of the world, trucks with 4BD1 engines are plentiful, so spares are everywhere.

Also, Tdi powered landies are quite common, and the Bosch VE injection pump which they use is also used on about 50 other common vehicles - albeit with different settings, but you could cobble something together to get you going again if needed.

If I was taking a Td5 to a remote 3rd world location, I would be carrying a spare loom, spare main pump and set of unit injectors, spare oil pump, and possibly a spare computer (and definitely a nanocom or whatever system to read any fault codes). I would also make sure I had some sort of failsafe battery system - you can push start a 4BD1 or Tdi and it will run all day with a dead battery, alternator or both. If the battery on a Td5 is too flat, it won't work the efi system.

You are planning to travel through the icehole of the world. Remote area/outback travel is no place for electronically controlled engines. They do not like heat and dust, are prone to instantaneous, catastrophic failure, and generally can not be diagnosed without special equipment. This stuff and the skills to use it are a bit scarce in Afghanistan and Iran. Likewise replacement electronic bits. I would be looking for a good 110 County-Isuzu, or the rare 120 Isuzu. Good condition and well equipped ones can be had from $7000 up. Really good & superbly equipped ones around $12000. The Isuzu will just keep chugging on and as Isuzurover says will function without any electricity at all provided you can push/tow/roll start it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brian Hjelm

I would be looking for a good 110 County-Isuzu, or the rare 120 Isuzu. Good condition and well equipped ones can be had from $7000 up. Really good & superbly equipped ones around $12000. The Isuzu will just keep chugging on and as Isuzurover says will function without any electricity at all provided you can push/tow/roll start it.

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Hi Brian, i take your point on th e 110 County-Isuzu, but we really need the dual cab 130 + tray for this trip… But another vote for non electrics i take it! I'm not so keen putting an isuzo motor in a 130, due to costs and resale value in the UK… the poms like them original, or prefer to convert themselves…

I would think that power on the steep roads in third world countries wont be an issue for consideration. The roads will likely be narrow and winding with terrifying drop-offs and you wont be able to go safely fast, even if you had more power. Chances are, you'll be stuck behind a slow moving, grossly underpowered, overloaded truck anyway.

I met a forum member last weekend with a fanstastic Isuzu 4BD1 turbo conversion in his Defender which looked factory in every way. He maintained it was quieter than then the Tdi it replaced but I dont know if insulation was added during the conversion.

An Isuzu 4JB1T (2.8 turbo - ex Holden Rodeo or Jackaroo) would be my first preference for what you are doing - they are easier to find these days than the old 3.9 and conversion kits are available ex the UK for a reasonable price. I think this would end up being the cheapest conversion due to engine and kit availability. They are also much lighter and smoother than a 4BD1.

My next preference if reliablity was the key concern (I think it should be) would be a Tdi.

I've never owned a TD5 (and probably never will) but would not be comfortable taking one into remote areas in a third world country.