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I would imagine if they did fit one they wouldnt have sold any in europe which is the major market.
Weight, cost, emissions (at least since say 98), Lack of road performance (real or assumed) noise, and also the tax issues in certain european countries with engines over 2.5l
cheers.
Pete
Brian,
Im not disputing your qualifications or knowledge but I think you are negating to realise that I am a qualified motor mechanic, I did my time on diesel machinery and tractors as well as golf course equipment and BUSES.......thats right, I still do what you did and my maintained busses was traveling all over the country with elderly people on bourd seeing the back blocks of our country.
The only failure I had was a wheel bearing in a trailer........even the simplest parts can fail.
The main reason for going to belts may have been cost but puting a rubber band on the front does shut them up a bit but to an Isuzu owner I doubt that that would be high on the list of priorities.
My first suggestion was to put an Isuzu in one if you bother going back through my posts and I even backed up that they would more than likely be the easiest to get parts for anywhere in the world but Im pretty sure that D.O.T. has made up his mind and has decided against the conversion.....mainly because he has said it numerous times.
Now getting back to the rubber band, Im not sure how many Km's that they will be doing but if it takes them 2 years or even a year to clock up 60 to 80k then they will have plenty of time to organise and plan to do the little bit of maintenance in changing the belt.
It doesnt have to be done by a mechainc, anyone with half a mechanically sound mind could do it and there are few other than standard tools that would need to be used to do it.
If it is done as part of the trip prep then it is likely they will not have to do it again before they sell the thing.
If it is done right then it shouldnt fail, about as much chance as a 4BD1 spitting a head gasket I suppose or maybe chewing out engine mounts or rattling everything lose so it falls off while driving down the road.
I do agree that the timing belts on the 300Tdi is a PITA and I would prefer not to have it but it is a nessesary evil and that brings me to Psimpson7.
As far as Nessesary evils........there are way too many on a TD5 IMHO for a trip like this.
The more I learn and read about them the more I understand what you guys are on about but even if I were to upgrade the Disco to a TD5 Deefa 130 my self my spares list for everyday driving would be fairly extensive and if I were to plan a trip like this......no matter how much I liked the power etc I still wouldnt have one.
Not only do I not think it is an appropriate engine for the job at hand but I think and I may be wrong but I dont think they run the same diffs as the 300Tdi do they, or was that just in the later Deefa 110's?
As far as low mileage goes, who cares, the vehicle will be trip preped, not just driven off the lot and on to the the world, there will be hundreds of inspections dont on all componants before they go (or I would hope so anyway) so why is the milage so important.
As long as it is in as close to perfect mechanical condition at the time of purchase so the least amount of money has to be spent in that area as possible but no matter what car they get Im petty sure it will be pulled apart and put back together again to make sure they will be needing only the minimum amount of work while on the trip.
I really think some people have lost the plot here a little, No I dont like TD5 Discos but I havnt bagged out a TD5 Deefa that I can remember, as far as an electronic controlled engine goes they made it as simple as possible but the TD5 in the Disco has too many control modules, sensors etc all tied into eachother and if you were clued into how it all worked then with Nanocom (which no one has said how much it costs just that it's not expensive) you can sort out most problems by removing codes........Deefa, the worst Ive heard that happens (other than the standard TD5 crap) is the central locking likes to lock you out sometimes.....which I would imagine would be a PITA in the middle of Pakistan with people shooting at you.
KISS is the key as has been said over and over again but not eveything has to have an Isuzu in it to be good and in this thread at least I havnt put down the TD5 I have just said that it is not the engine for the job........WHICH WAS THE QUESTION.......and I see no reason why I should have been flamed for saying that or for having a veiw that the 300Tdi is the best of a bad bunch so to speak.
Rant over, if you cant read through the whole thread then try not to comment on it, I have tried to put it straight forward and simple but I know that the skimmers will read between the lines as per normal and not bother with the whole thing because it's too long.
So, Im Sorry :p
Which is exactly why it makes it so hard to sell a truck like this in the UK, which I'd really like to do as their resell value over there is better then here, plus it saves me the cost of shipping it back…Quote:
Originally Posted by Psimpson7
Also like the idea of the economy of the TDI…
Good post there Mcrover. (see I am not arguing!:))
Even I can see that having an engine that has no electronics is a good thing for very remote travel. The issue I have is that you cant buy one anymore and therefore if you want a modern 4wd there is no other option.
I think every possible engine choice is going to have positives and negatives, and you have to look at it in conjucntion with the other possible dramas you could get in a car of that age.
I would, myself prefer to take a low milages td5 defender over a high mileage Tdi one, especially if you have only just bought it.
I think this is just going to go round and round and the final desicion will be one the OP has to make and stand by.
The spares issue is a real pain. I feel I carry a comprehensive kit and then we stuffed in a rad in the middle of nowhere. Didnt have one of those, and thats the problem I think. What ever you carry, you wont need, and if you dont take it you will need it.
You point about d2 bcu systems is a good one. The Defender is a lot ore simple than the Dicovery and all the electronics are limited to the engine which is nice.
Dont think I hate the Tdi, I dont, my brother has a 300tdi D1 and it is faultlessly reliable, (apart from the odd waterpump) and really a very good car. I wont deny that, but I really think the OP needs to look beyond the engine and buy the complete car.
Lets face it there is much more chance of finding a better condition td5 than a tdi.
Rgds
Peter.
Weight - sure, no contest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psimpson7
Cost? The 4BD1 (and later replacements) was produced in HUGE quantities, so if anything the cost of engines (and engine development) would have been less.
Emissions - as above, later 4BD1 replacements could have been used.
(lack of) Road performance??? You have me there. Sure, a Tdi/TD5 has a bit better top end on the highway (thanks to the turbo), but the 4BD1 wins everywhere else. Add a turbo and there is no contest.
Noise - sure - a TD5 is quieter than a 4BD1, but a 4HE1 is quieter than a 4BD1 as well.
I agree on the tax issue, but they could have offered a small ISUZU or IVECO engine for those markets...
Anyway, all this is academic, because, as you say, it didn't happen...
Duchontoast - IF you want a 4BD1(T), AND it has to be a dual cab/130, then it may be an easier proposition to get hold of a 120" ute (if you can) and put a 130 rear body on it. A 130 has a 127" wheelbase, so I am sure it won't be a huge effort - and probably cheaper than an engine conversion. Plus, when you sell it, you have a standard drivetrain with a modified body.
Of course, a civvie or military 6x6 with a factory 4BD1T is another option?
I'd suspect that once you'd budgeted on a vehicle, and a 4BD1, and conversion, you'd be better off buying a Td5 and comprehensive electronic spares and a diagnostic computer.
And you'd probably walk away with change.
Cheers
Simon
Just buy one of the very good County-Isuzus that are around. Why do you need a 130?
With hindsight maybe the off-roading wasn't the best idea but it was fun at the time and we did take it easier than most... honest :angel:Quote:
Originally Posted by dutchontoast
Dear Brian, and McRover - your passion for this issue is almost causing my mac to overheat… i think i need to install extra water cooling for the cpu…Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrover
You know what, you are both right, for different reasons, so let's not quibble about it any more, please? :p
McRover - yes, it IS about buying the whole car, and there are people that travelled from france to oz with TD5 without problems, and we CAN get any spare part couriered anywhere in the world, and we're in no rush… so things CAN get fixed along the way… we actually don't need reliability of a military degree, although it would be nice...
An earlier poster put me on to a fully kitted out 2003 130, chipped (130kw) with everything one could possibly need, and then some, incl. OME all round, winch, LR tank, lights, hd springs with 2" lift, cruise contol, snorkel, dual battery, front and rear air locks, reversing camera, 16" steel rims + 2nd spare, UHF radio, all this AND a second hand tray-on camper, similar to the one we were going to buy in combination with a 130 in the first place, in other words, pretty much the exact vehicle + kit we'd want for the big trip.
It's just a matter of deciding if we're happy to go for the TD5 engine!
Why Defender 130 for the big trip? The name of the thread (i know, it's a few pages long now) - the 130 takes the tray-on camper, and wife and 2 children.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hjelm
The 110 only takes roof tent or trailer, we're going tray-on, creature comforts keeps the kids happy, means family happy :-) Don't want to tow in India… Or pay for shipping a trailer as well as a car…