ABC Four Corners on Renewable Energy.

Im at the bottom end of the energy food chain at my house.
Last months power bill shows that I produced 100Kg per 1/4 CO2 more than last year and less KWhr. the billed amount is more than $100 less. middle class one average income-Im told there is a subsidy for children this year.


Its not worth me installing solar hot water as of peak electric works out as less than $400 a year total. might be worth the 10 year investment with a push when I need to replace a hot water service.


Solar panels, I believe they might be Ok but going on what my neighbours cost are I be long gone before they recover cost-I havnt seen anything yet to show they are good for the environment if they are plonked in small sizes at each household.


Everthing that I can save at home would be waisted a hundred times over at work. The few people I personally met in the research industry already know that.

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Originally Posted by p38arover

Watch it on ABC Iview.

Don't let this thread become a political rant.

On another forum I frequent, a chap in the USA says he pays 6 cents/kWh. Including GST, I pay nearly 30 cents/kWh.

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Ron, it is impossible to compare unlike countries on energy costs, or any other costs really.
Both countries are roughly equal in size (area) OZ has 20+million to pay for infrastructure and energy fees, USA has 300+million to pay the same bill, why wouldn't it be cheaper, Regards Frank.

I understand that Frank. I wonder if nuclear generation keeps costs down.

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Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

There are lots of roadworks in SW Sydney at the moment and each weekend when the sites are closed you see people with trailers collecting up the felled trees. :D

I drove up to Kurrajong over the weekend and you could smell the odour of wood heaters in the air. It kinda makes you think of being warm sitting in front of the fire with a nice glass of red! :)

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Those lovely smells you are talking about is the Aromatic Hydrocarbons from a witches brew of Toxic carcinogenic compounds, PAH's as above, Dioxin, Furans and the same Toxins that cause CANCER in tobacco smoke, but wait there's more, this witches brew, wood smoke is 20 times more potent than the same volume of Tobacco smoke.
So while you can suck in that crap and enjoy.
Anyone who believes wood smoke emissions do not pollute is living in Fairyland with the pixies.
Do you really think that CO2 is the only greenhouse gas released from burning wood in a Domestic Wood Heater (DWH), if yes, go away and bury your head back in the sand.
CO2 is the only greenhouse gas (GHG) that is measured when it comes to climate change/pollution, why? because the powers that be don't have a PROTOCOL for measuring the OTHER GHG's, so as far as they are concerned we only need to worry about CO2, because they have a Protocol for that.
Methane released when burning wood (esp. in a DWH) is a GHG and it is 23 times more potent than CO2.
When climate change does arrive it will be because of Methane released into our air.
Now we have Dioxins, Furans, PAH's, POP's, Bap's all released into the air from each and every DWH, all these Carcinogens are being produced in your DWH, mainly because you can restrict the Oxygen the fire needs to burn these toxins off.
Most heaters have this Secondary burn system (touted by the AHHA as a godsend), great but it only works if the heater is turned up on full, it relies on high heat to burn off excess gasses, turn it down to smoulder and you have a Cancer making machine.
See if this makes sense: a tree stores CO2 (as well as some really nasty compounds) and emits Oxygen, so you come along with your macho chain saw and cut that tree down and burn it in your Slow Combustion DWH, releasing that CO2 into the air we breathe, along with all the other TOXIC crap, so you are destroying one of the 2 things on our planet that keeps us alive.
So where do you think this pleasant smelling brew of Carcinogens is going after it goes up the chimney, well if there is a "Cold Air Inversion" over you area then up to 40% of what goes up your chimney will be drawn back into your house to fuel the DWH.
The rest goes into your neighbours property (which is illegal) all over the washing on the line and through any window that is foolishly left open, into the lungs, then into the blood. If you are elderly with a pre-existing heart or Lung disease, a pregnant women or a child you are most at risk, of Premature Death.
Compounds in DWH emissions will damage the immune system, others will cause Cancer, POP's like Dioxins etc. never leave your body they accumulate and there is no treatment for Dioxin ingestion.
Yet we still have people that say that burning wood is environmentally good, I'd love someone to prove that bit of bull****, they say wood burnt is GHG neutral, because we plant another tree.
Well that's a laugh, show me where in the world are there more trees being planted than are being cut down, Australia has only 1/3 of it's trees left since colonisation, how is it possible to call wood a renewable resource and non-polluting, you can of course, if you have a VESTED interest.
Ignoring the other pollutants from the use of DWH and discounting the effect on climate change incredibly STUPID and dangerous.
There has recently been a Senate inquiry into DWH and there impact on health and the measures that will be introduced to reduce the Death Toll will hit the pockets of those that like the smell, like the ambience, Polluter Pays, so enjoy polluting the air WE ALL have to breathe, because soon you won't be able to afford to burn wood, also have a thought about what you are breathing in every night when you shut your DWH down to smoulder overnight, or during the day, also the 1400+ Australians that die each and every year from airborne pollutants, I will copy some emails at the bottom of this post for anyone that is interested in some facts.
BTW can you name me any other household appliance that your State government will buy back off you so you will stop poisoning our air, Regards Frank.

Sorry don't know how to get the promised emails onto this post, try here for factual info http://woodsmoke.3sc.net/

Ron, I think if Nuclear was cheaper (for the retailer), no amount of protest or scientific evidence would stop Nuclear plants popping up everywhere.
I think the biggest costs other than the horrendous cost of building one would be Public Liability Insurance and the cost of storing spent fuel for the next 250,000 years, those costs have to be borne by someone and if you guessed the Consumer you would be right, Regards Frank.

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Originally Posted by Brian Hjelm

My Mrs and I would cheerfully murder the people whose homes surround our place and have wood burning heaters. Our house stinks of wood smoke and it affects our breathing. These characters start their fires in late May at the first sign of a cool evening and they let them smoulder away until late August. This is Brisbane, for Christ's sake. You don't need a heater of any kind.

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Brian, your Local Council has powers to instruct the offending neighbours to cease polluting your (and everyone else's air) lifestyle. A smoke abatement order, but I warn you that you will become the PROBLEM in your councils eye, not the bastards polluting your air. Council has a duty of care to provide a safe environment, remind them of that duty, it may work, or you may be kicking a dead horse, you can sue in the District Court and seek compensation for damages to health and property.
See Law Handbook (in your State, local courthouse) under neighbourhood disputes, Smoke, Ashes and Dust) if Council refuse to act get in touch with the Local Government Ombudsman to light a fire under them, good luck, try to avoid breathing in that crap, hard I know, Regards Frank.

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Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

Actually, Shane, I was around at a friends place today. We looked at his power bills from 30 years ago. The price of power (cents per kWh) has not increased much. What has skyrocketed in cost, however, is the connection fee. What they charge you whether you use any power or not.

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Not the case here. When I moved here 14 years ago peak was 14 cents and off peak was 3.5 cents.

It is now about 31cents and off the top of my head without getting out a bill, off peak is about 14 cents, the same as peak was.

Supply charge has also gone up. From memory it was about 40 cents a day and now between 95 to 105 cents depending on the retailer.