Tesla Powerwall - battery for your house

Early adopters of any technology are happy to pay a premium price to show off their trendiness to the neighbours. This is an item stuck to your outside wall after all. It's no different to the AULRO members who have the means to buy a brand new Range Rover Sport to park on the front lawn when a well used 2A would get them up the backyard hill just the same.

Anyway, battery costs are falling at around 14% p.a. and if this trend continues by 2021 batteries will cost half of what they do today. Then they will fly off the shelf as fast as they can be made. Early adopters may also take the gamble that the batteries either perform better than expected, or fail within the warranty period and get replaced by shiny new ones. Not personally being a consumer of first wave products, I won't be buying one until the financial benefits are clear. But good on the people pushing the technology forwards, early adopters are essential to drive future demand and mass production at a rapidly lowering cost.

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Originally Posted by bee utey

But good on the people pushing the technology forwards,

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Push the technology forwards! It's just a battery pack. I've been using battery packs for years. It looks to me the technology, the battery pack technology, hasn't progressed in years.
It looks to me Tesla has just put more batteries in a bigger box.

I reckon this system should be looked at before you even consider a powerwall.
Home - All Grid Energy
Because it's Australian.

If you're going to waste your money, waste it in Australia.

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Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

It's just a battery pack.

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Sure thing. Nail a bit of corro over that pallet of half dead truck batteries and you'll have twice the product for a fraction of the cost. Profit!

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Originally Posted by bee utey

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Anyway, battery costs are falling at around 14% p.a. and if this trend continues by 2021 batteries will cost half of what they do today. ........

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I keep seeing these sort of claims, but when I go to buy batteries I see no evidence of it. My first set of Batteries was installed in 1994, and while the replacements I installed in in 2013 were cheaper, the difference was hardly noticeable. But difficult to be certain because it proved virtually impossible to compare apples with apples, seeing that there is no standard way of specifying batteries (or if there is a standard, nobody uses it!).

John

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I keep seeing these sort of claims, but when I go to buy batteries I see no evidence of it.

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Same here.
I have been idly looking at LiFePO4 battery prices on Ebay and they seem to be the same or more expensive than 2 years ago when I first became interested at at least $1100 for a 100AH battery.

Similarly even the Lithium battery packs for say Ryobi tools are the same if not more expensive than say 3-4 years ago when I bought the last lot.

I note that currently Tesla are buying their batteries from Panasonic and hope to reduce prices when their "mega factory" gets up and running.
Hope to being the operative Phrase

Regards Philip A

A local crowd are offering a Samsung battery pack for 5kw solar systems for $15,000. I'm waiting to see what happens. Might install a battery bank in 2019 when I plan to retire.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

If you've been watching Lithium battery prices in Aussie Dollars, remember the $A has dropped from around 90 cents US to around 70 cents US over the last two years. This will have masked the drop in production costs where goods are traded in $US. Then there's the Australia Tax. I've found that even with the $A tanking, overseas costs have remained substantially lower. Either the prices overseas are dropping or the local retailers are having trouble shifting their stocks but refuse to lower their prices. Or both.

As for lead acid prices, there wouldn't be as much pressure applied to prices by increasing volume production, it's more of a mature technology.

Are these the same batteries they use in those damn hoverboards?
I wonder if this will turn out like the pink bats fiasco.
Houses burned down due to overheating batteries or poor wiring.

None the less its great to see an alternative to what we have.
Now for a few generations of the product until it becomes a viable item.

A sparky mate of mine seems to think replacement parts on these items will outweigh any gains made.
As suggested earlier i think by bee utey is the prices are dropping year by year.

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Originally Posted by DAMINK

Are these the same batteries they use in those damn hoverboards?

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The hoverboards that caught fire were crappy chinese knockoffs that people bought cheap. The original hoverboards are made to a much higher standard.

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Originally Posted by DAMINK

I wonder if this will turn out like the pink bats fiasco.

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The percentage of houses that caught fire due to the home insulation scheme was actually lower than the regular rate for house fires. It was a media beat up by a certain Mr Murdoch for his own nefarious ends.

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Originally Posted by DAMINK

Houses burned down due to overheating batteries or poor wiring.

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You don't need a battery to start a fire, most appliances if abused will catch fire. Heck, even a reputable brand like LG made washing machines that spontaneously catch fire. There are plenty of them still out there that haven't been repaired under the safety recall, so expect a few more fires in laundries across the nation.

Oh and there has already been one new type battery catch fire in Australia, as it was mounted to a brick wall in his garage the house didn't catch fire with it. Quality battery installations will have plenty of safety features to keep them from doing much damage. Using an angle grinder in the garage is a much surer way of setting a house alight, with all the inflammables people keep under the bench down the back.

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Originally Posted by DAMINK

None the less its great to see an alternative to what we have.
Now for a few generations of the product until it becomes a viable item.

A sparky mate of mine seems to think replacement parts on these items will outweigh any gains made.
As suggested earlier i think by bee utey is the prices are dropping year by year.

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No doubt there will be winners and losers in the rush to sell house batteries, wary people will wait and see as to what are the best performing products before getting one. I for one have no need to be the first in my suburb with a Tesla battery, I already have an adequate back up system in the garage. Load shifting doesn't suit my current feed in tariff anyway. :)

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Originally Posted by bee utey

The hoverboards that caught fire were crappy chinese knockoffs that people bought cheap. The original hoverboards are made to a much higher standard.

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They were legal in Aus for a short time before they were banned.
Had you purchased one early before knowing how bad they are then bad luck i guess? Imagine the same things happen with the batteries?

Yep people buy cheap stuff, chinese stuff all the time which gets back to my earlier point. I hope this does not happen with the batteries in this situation.
Even different installers may source there products from different locations.
Just food for thought.

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Originally Posted by bee utey

The percentage of houses that caught fire due to the home insulation scheme was actually lower than the regular rate for house fires. It was a media beat up by a certain Mr Murdoch for his own nefarious ends.

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Dont forget about people dying. I think thats relevant to this discussion.
And based on those deaths i dont think its just a media beat up and nor would the families of said dead people.
Not to mention they had a Royal Commission into this. I highly doubt they would do that if its just a Murdock beat up........ If there was no deaths and the contractors were legit and following the correct safety then perhaps.
But that is not the case.


Battery Expert Weighs in on Tesla

Not a bad write up by this guy.
"There is always some percentage of failures in battery packs and battery cells."

With that said and keeping in mind the pink bats problem this was my point.

If we roll out these on mass and there is a Percentage of Failures in the product, all ya need is poor instillation like the pink bats and you have real issues.
Which was my point all along i guess.