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Thread: EV general discussion

  1. #1611
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tombie View Post
    Wonder if they provide a discount for supplying second hand product as new? Ethical? I think not!
    Depends if they work better once recycled? I had heard this before so found a science bases paper on it for you.

    Noting a large amount of Australian batteries are Not yet in recycling systems

    Recycled Lithium-Ion Batteries Can Perform Better Than New Ones

    A novel method of recycling such batteries could help meet skyrocketing demand

  2. #1612
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramblingboy42 View Post
    its ok to try and justify an 80% recharge capacity in one hour as ok.....but what do you do during that hour? to even try to compare it to refuelling an ice vehicle is crazy....I mean would you stand there for an hour with a fuel nozzle in your hand?

    Gav's question is valid, why do you really want an ev?
    An hour? I go for a run of course

    A missed Gavs question sorry mate.

    I do want a car that can tow, 4wd and not cost me $$$$$$$$$ for fuel and servicing. No way have I saved 30k yet 8 year battery warranty should make that entirely possible

  3. #1613
    DiscoMick Guest
    Latest RACQ magazine has an article saying 96% of lead acid batteries is recyclable. Doesn't give a figure for lithium.

    It also says the motoring organisations, such as RACQ, NRMA etc, have bought Chargefox and plan a major expansion of charge points.

    Let's do some rough maths.

    There are several $50,000 EVs around with many more coming, which is cheaper than a typical Hilux, Ranger or similar ute.
    Let's say a person commutes 70km each way or 140km a day or 700kms in a 5 day week.
    Let's say their vehicle uses 10 l/100kms, so that's 70 litres, at let's say $2 a litre is $140 pw on fuel is $7800 a year.

    Now let's say the person spends $50k on an EV with a typical 300km range.
    Each day they get home and recharge the vehicle, which is on about 50% of its 300km range, so it should recharge in an hour or less.
    How much does 5 hours of recharging cost? If the sun is shining, effectively nothing. But just for the argument, let's say it costs $3 x 5 = $15.

    So instead of paying $140 pw or $7800 a year, they are now paying $15pw or $780 a year.
    The annual savings is $7800 - 780 = $7020. So the fuel savings alone would pay for the vehicle in about 7 years.
    That doesn't include servicing savings, which for an EV should typically be about half, since its just oils, brakes and tyres.

    These are all rounded averages of course, but even if you fiddle with them, for example saying fuel is cheaper or consumption is lower or charging costs less, when boiled down the EV still comes out way ahead.

  4. #1614
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoMick View Post
    Latest RACQ magazine has an article saying 96% of lead acid batteries is recyclable. Doesn't give a figure for lithium.

    It also says the motoring organisations, such as RACQ, NRMA etc, have bought Chargefox and plan a major expansion of charge points.

    Let's do some rough maths.

    There are several $50,000 EVs around with many more coming, which is cheaper than a typical Hilux, Ranger or similar ute.
    Let's say a person commutes 70km each way or 140km a day or 700kms in a 5 day week.
    Let's say their vehicle uses 10 l/100kms, so that's 70 litres, at let's say $2 a litre is $140 pw on fuel is $7800 a year.

    Now let's say the person spends $50k on an EV with a typical 300km range.
    Each day they get home and recharge the vehicle, which is on about 50% of its 300km range, so it should recharge in an hour or less.
    How much does 5 hours of recharging cost? If the sun is shining, effectively nothing. But just for the argument, let's say it costs $3 x 5 = $15.

    So instead of paying $140 pw or $7800 a year, they are now paying $15pw or $780 a year.
    The annual savings is $7800 - 780 = $7020. So the fuel savings alone would pay for the vehicle in about 7 years.
    That doesn't include servicing savings, which for an EV should typically be about half, since its just oils, brakes and tyres.

    These are all rounded averages of course, but even if you fiddle with them, for example saying fuel is cheaper or consumption is lower or charging costs less, when boiled down the EV still comes out way ahead.
    Could add SMUG MUG C02 free feeling as well Mick? Really I meant maintenance. Its is $$$$$$$$$$ cheaper. I looking at Fuel Cell maintenance now.

    The Hydrogen Bus/ Trains and others running for over a decade now for some of them will help with that information soon.
    Data is being done. Life spans are interesting

    " 4.6 Electrolyzer Lifetime While there is some variability in the reported electolyzer lifetime, there is general agreement that current AE and PEM systems would have lifetimes of 75,000 and 60,000 hours respectively [5]. We project these lifetimes out to 2050 with a simple linear relationship up to 125,000 hours [5]. We also follow the International Energy Agency’s estimates of SOE lifetimes: 20,000 hours for current systems out to 87,5000 hours in 2050 [5]. Following Brynolf et al., once a electrolyzer requires replacement, those replacement costs are estimated to be 50% of the initial capital costs [11]"

    Home based waffle or interesting re Hot water and electricity is in the UK via two companies plus about 300,000 gas to hydrogen to electricity/heating in Japan homes.

    While it might not seem EV related I think FCEV or EV with a borrowed Fuel Cell Gen in the back will rock my world, tow the trailers and allow long distance travel in the next 5-10 years using that tech. A nice Professor in WA and a young person at home at UNI with access to all scientific papers is cool. While research is not retail products the rapid rate of change will make the copper wire home phone to clunky expensive mobile to very high tech cheap computers AKA Smart phones most carry now seem even slower than my long runs

    Being a first mover is expensive up front- Not arguing with that point at all.

    Did anyone own a BRICK? It was in "1987, retailing at a massive $4,250" My cheap 5g is a few $$ only


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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyDiver View Post
    Yep and by 1990 when I bought mine they were down to 1100 bucks, technology just gets cheaper very quickly then and now. And if I recall correctly it was 50 a month line rental plus calls on top. That was my first ever mobile and I was one of the very few escort agency drivers to have one in adelaide at the time, a lot safer all round. Jobs still came through on the pagers as we had no text messaging then.

    Electric vehicles and their charging infrastructure will do the same in the next decade, a slow steady ramp up then suddenly a sharp rise and they're everywhere and ubiquitous.

    I won't be replacing/disposing my disco 2 unless fuel becomes ridiculously expensive or it is legislated, but my 2018 Picanto will be replaced by an electric shopping/doctors trolley when it hits 15 yrs old for sure unless I can convert it to electric.

    ICE vehicles are selling well and will be still available new in quantities of squillions all around the world for many years yet so a market for cleaner biofuels to keep them running is there as well as ICE to Electric drivetrain drop in changeover kits.

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    ....as well as ICE to Electric drivetrain drop in changeover kits......quote

    I havent seen anything on these.....I cant see how you can do a drivetrain drop-in but it's possible I guess.

    EV's are going to make a lot of people happy over the next few years , but as you can see the coal mines/generators have become a "catch the hot potato" thing very suddenly because technology has suddenly smashed into it catching the big generators napping.

    the same will happen with motor vehicle technology....ev's being nearly as old as ice vehicles , with better propulsion systems floating in the ethers.

    we already suddenly see positive production of electric passenger aeroplanes who'd have ever thought that would happen?

    when the dirty dozen or whatever you call those guys decide its time to make another motza , the real alternative powered vehicle will appear.

  7. #1617
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramblingboy42 View Post
    ....as well as ICE to Electric drivetrain drop in changeover kits......quote

    I havent seen anything on these.....I cant see how you can do a drivetrain drop-in but it's possible I guess.

    EV's are going to make a lot of people happy over the next few years , but as you can see the coal mines/generators have become a "catch the hot potato" thing very suddenly because technology has suddenly smashed into it catching the big generators napping.

    the same will happen with motor vehicle technology....ev's being nearly as old as ice vehicles , with better propulsion systems floating in the ethers.

    we already suddenly see positive production of electric passenger aeroplanes who'd have ever thought that would happen?

    when the dirty dozen or whatever you call those guys decide its time to make another motza , the real alternative powered vehicle will appear.

    I heard recently that REX Aviation are investigating/trialing Batt Powered Aero engines.

    Good luck with that Rex. A bloody long Extension Lead would be required.

  8. #1618
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramblingboy42 View Post
    ....as well as ICE to Electric drivetrain drop in changeover kits......quote

    I havent seen anything on these.....I cant see how you can do a drivetrain drop-in but it's possible I guess.

    EV's are going to make a lot of people happy over the next few years , but as you can see the coal mines/generators have become a "catch the hot potato" thing very suddenly because technology has suddenly smashed into it catching the big generators napping.

    the same will happen with motor vehicle technology....ev's being nearly as old as ice vehicles , with better propulsion systems floating in the ethers.

    we already suddenly see positive production of electric passenger aeroplanes who'd have ever thought that would happen?

    when the dirty dozen or whatever you call those guys decide its time to make another motza , the real alternative powered vehicle will appear.
    I think a drop in or drop on might be a lot easier for EV FCEV..... At Ritta servicing my Disco a week or so a go an as usual loved seeing the body of a RR or Disco way up high in the sky while engine, transmission and ... were all a refit delight
    Not that I would try it yet Instructions




    Des the power lead for "First Practical Zero Emission Aviation Powertrain | USA & UK | ZeroAvia" is interesting I do not have shares in that one!!!

    They offer a REFIT!

    "We work with certified fixed-wing airframe models to retrofit and linefit, simplifying regulatory issues and reducing time to market"

    "ZeroAvia’s powertrain repowers existing airframe models"

    I do not fly thank fully as planes are expensive bits of kit

  9. #1619
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    I have no issues with the price of pure EVs, their range or their ability as a city comuter vehicle - the issue for me is their recharging times on long trips. For sure stop for lunch and get 20 mins worth of charge in to go an extra 50kms but to have to stop to recharge for a couple of hours, just does not work for me.

    When I go to an EV it will also have to have to also be fitted with an engine to drive the vehicle when the battery runs out. Might be different when hydrogen cell infrastructure becomes mainstream.

    Edit just saw an add on TV last night for the new Toyota Hydrogen Cell vehicle - so along with Hyundai I guess these two models are now available - the issue at the moment is refuelling as I think there are only a couple of hydrogen refuelling points available in Australia at the moment. Hopefully will rapidly change in the future.
    REMLR 243

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    1977 FC 101
    1976 Jaguar XJ12C
    1973 Haflinger AP700
    1971 Jaguar V12 E-Type Series 3 Roadster
    1957 Series 1 88"
    1957 Series 1 88" Station Wagon

  10. #1620
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoMick View Post

    There are several $50,000 EVs around with many more coming, which is cheaper than a typical Hilux, Ranger or similar ute.
    Let's say a person commutes 70km each way or 140km a day or 700kms in a 5 day week.
    Let's say their vehicle uses 10 l/100kms, so that's 70 litres, at let's say $2 a litre is $140 pw on fuel is $7800 a year.

    Now let's say the person spends $50k on an EV with a typical 300km range.
    Each day they get home and recharge the vehicle, which is on about 50% of its 300km range, so it should recharge in an hour or less.
    How much does 5 hours of recharging cost? If the sun is shining, effectively nothing. But just for the argument, let's say it costs $3 x 5 = $15.
    Dont get me wrong,Ev's are a great idea,for those that want one and suits their needs.For something like a small second car,they are probably perfect.

    But lets be realistic.

    A $50K EV is never going to be the same size as a HiLux,Ranger,or similar.Nor is it going to do the same sort of work,or be as convenient,for a Tradie or people that do a lot of camping,touring,or towing.Or used as a largish family run around.
    So we are not comparing apples with apples.
    A $50K Ev may be a small sedan,probably no where near as large as a Camry,Mazda 6,or Kluga.
    It maybe the same sort of size as a Corola,Mazda 2 or a Kona,(which is an Ev).These little ICE cars use around 5 to 7l/100.Small Hydrids use less.
    i dont know what they cost new but i cant imagine them costing much more than $35K,depending on model,etc.

    On a home charger,it definitely is not going to charge in an hour or less.The fast charger will draw way to much current for a house mains.
    To fast charge it will need to be charged on a charger somewhere that can handle the high power load.
    Paul

    D2,D2,D2a,D4,'09 Defender 110(sons), all moved on.

    '56 S1,been in the family since...'56
    Comes out of hibernation every few months for a run

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